Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by stormalong

... in a few years when he retires.

Sure buy a water maker that he can't use and will be technologically obsolete by the time he might use it. Buy a big dinghy with a 15 horsepower outboard that it too big to carry on his Endeavour 33. Put a windlass on a small light weight boat.

In a few years he will either be in a different boat or not go cruising. Spend a lot of money on things he can't use where he is and let it depreciate/deteriorate?

Right now he needs to learn how to sail, not how to load down his boat with stuff he doesn't need and may never need.

Right on, Stormalong!

(And also Thinwater - as always with Thinwater )

DeeBee, sail, sail, sail and oh, did I mention SAIL?

Then make any changes, as needed for you.

Good luck!
LittleWing77

[ejjawhite]

Make sure to check the mast step, as Endeavor was known to use steel on some models, and I believe the 33 was one. I passed on one that the step was almost totally corroded through. However, the fix wouldn’t have to be very expensive.

Originally Posted by DeeBee

So I just put money down on my first boat, an '83 Endeavour 33. The plan is to really get comfortable sailing around Lake Michigan (Chicago, USA) until I retire in a few years then take off for the Atlantic. Follow the sun and avoid hurricanes. I expect to do longer and longer stints (I have lots of vacation time) to learn the lifestyle.

While I'm still employed I can afford to add the stuff I'll need/want.

The boat already has an autohelm, but I might add a windvane auto helm to conserve power, less reliant on electronics and also for backup.

I also built a DIY chart plotter (with AIS receiver) that seems to work in my livingroom. (total cost was about $300)

For those of you who have been cruising for a while, what are you must haves, would like to have, maybe if I hit the jackpot, I don't want and those things you added but never use?

[DeeBee]

Thanks for all your comments and recommendations.

Just a note, being a single/solo female sailor, things like a remote controlled windlass is on my 2nd year list.

Someone mentioned about not needing solar, on the contrary, that's my number one must add immediately. I'll be on a mooring not a dock and the boat I have my eye on doesn't even have a charging system, so I'll be starting from zero there. That is a no brainer. I'll also be replacing the older AGM batteries with LiFePo4 at 24 volts with a 24v-12v converter.

A dinghy is definitely in my long term plan but for now, a 2-person kayak will foot the bill.

I do like the idea of a new mattress (with something under it to allow airflow) but let's see where it's most comfortable to sleep first. Sounds like year 2.

Water filtration system sounds like a good idea but watermaker will wait.

A/C let's see what the budget in year 2 or 3 looks like.

This year (it's on the hard until spring) is repairing delam issues, electrical rebuild, replace one of the thru-hulls that's leaking, watching for sales on new VHF radios, update emergency supplies in the spring... etc

Thank you all for your support.

[merrydolphin]

Self steering is so critical on passages. I think that a serious cruising boat should have 3 methods of self steering. 2 of my boats had vane steering and 2 auto pilots. One below deck and one above. 1 of my boats had 3 electronic pilots. One below deck with lots of spare parts, and 2 wheel pilots. Really the best combo is a vane gear and 2 electronic pilots. One below, one above. The above is particular ly useful in light airs aft or calms. And light to moderate winds well forward where the boat can practically balance and sail itself anyway.

Bottom line, you don’t want to be stuck steering 24 hrs a day with small crew. Gets old real quick. More than once I have been down to one pilot, But not none!

To get an Idea of what you can cruise with:
Sailed without radar for decades (yeah showing my age). The first boat that I cruised had an entire equipment list of: Flashlights 3, lead line, hand bearing compass, “ships compass” Sextant, portable receiver for WWV time tics. one anchor, 3 sails, (main , jib and spinnaker), VHF, one car battery and no way to charge it, (just used it mainly for VHF), and kerosine lights and cooking. Yeah, I was young and crazy. Today, a very different story, and extensive equipment list!

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by merrydolphin

Self steering is so critical on passages. I think that a serious cruising boat should have 3 methods of self steering. 2 of my boats had vane steering and 2 auto pilots. One below deck and one above. 1 of my boats had 3 electronic pilots. One below deck with lots of spare parts, and 2 wheel pilots. Really the best combo is a vane gear and 2 electronic pilots. One below, one above. The above is particular ly useful in light airs aft or calms. And light to moderate winds well forward where the boat can practically balance and sail itself anyway.

Bottom line, you don’t want to be stuck steering 24 hrs a day with small crew. Gets old real quick. More than once I have been down to one pilot, But not none!

To get an Idea of what you can cruise with:
Sailed without radar for decades (yeah showing my age). The first boat that I cruised had an entire equipment list of: Flashlights 3, lead line, hand bearing compass, “ships compass” Sextant, portable receiver for WWV time tics. one anchor, 3 sails, (main , jib and spinnaker), VHF, one car battery and no way to charge it, (just used it mainly for VHF), and kerosine lights and cooking. Yeah, I was young and crazy. Today, a very different story, and extensive equipment list!

I so agree. It amazes me how many take of with one autopilot.

I've had my main autopilot fail twice, no problem, Hydrovane to the rescue. Also have a tiller pilot that attaches to the Hydrovane.

I'm currently replacing my complete autopilot, I'm that paranoid that I'm also repairing the old ram and leaving the old (not so smart ) system in place.

I love redundancy.

[theBigKahuna]

Agree w/ thinwater... get used to the boat; talk to other boaters and cruisers;

We had a laundry list of things we wanted to change/add to our catamaran after purchase last July. Many of the items are still on the list, but that list gets reprioritized.

We're actually down in Monroe Harbor and just upgraded all our fenders. With the water levels so high, many of the docks are just flat out dangerous to tie up to! Figure we'll also need them when we bring her back down south (I tell folks FL will be the furthest north you'll see us) with storms/hurricanes.

[sailingharry]

I agree strongly with the "sail a while, see what you need" crowd. And on an older smaller boat, it is super easy to over-improve and end up with a boat that you decide is too old and too small, but has too much invested in it.


But I'm chiming in with one comment -- your "chart plotter." If you DIY'd it for $300, I wouldn't call it a "chart plotter" but rather a computer based navigation system. If you are sailing a sailboat, especially a smaller one, and ultra-especially since you will be solo, a computer based system is a poor substitute for a chart plotter.


You need a system that can run 24/7, in any weather, readable in any sun, that you can readily see (and control) from the helm. A laptop/desktop/RasberryPI/Arduino is a useful addition below, but not good in 20 knots, with rain and spray, as you try and motor into a strange harbor after dark. You need to be able to use one hand to steer the boat, another hand to deal with that line that got loose, and with your third hand adjust the zoom so you can see how far you are off that bar.


While I don't really agree with "device" based systems, I do see that in certain use-cases, an app is suitable. Many phones now are waterproof, the battery can last for several hours, and with a bimini, the sun is not as much an issue. With a RAM mount, it starts to get close to a suitable chart plotter, especially if you tend to sail in familiar waters in predicable weather.


Computer based systems do have a use-case too. My father takes his 40' motor sailor from the FL Keys to MD and back every year, using a 15 year old (or more?) laptop (with several backups) running a charting program. But, he never heels more than 5-10 degrees, never gets rained on (pilot house), steers from a captains chair at the wheel, and never has to deal with sun. I'm jealous, as I'd love to use a computer based system, but it's impossible on a sailboat.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by DeeBee

Thanks for all your comments and recommendations.

Just a note, being a single/solo female sailor, things like a remote controlled windlass is on my 2nd year list.

Someone mentioned about not needing solar, on the contrary, that's my number one must add immediately. I'll be on a mooring not a dock and the boat I have my eye on doesn't even have a charging system, so I'll be starting from zero there. That is a no brainer. I'll also be replacing the older AGM batteries with LiFePo4 at 24 volts with a 24v-12v converter.

A dinghy is definitely in my long term plan but for now, a 2-person kayak will foot the bill.

I do like the idea of a new mattress (with something under it to allow airflow) but let's see where it's most comfortable to sleep first. Sounds like year 2.

Water filtration system sounds like a good idea but watermaker will wait.

A/C let's see what the budget in year 2 or 3 looks like.

This year (it's on the hard until spring) is repairing delam issues, electrical rebuild, replace one of the thru-hulls that's leaking, watching for sales on new VHF radios, update emergency supplies in the spring... etc

Thank you all for your support.

Before you buy a windvane and a windlass it would be best to decide if this is your forever boat. Endeavors are good Great Lakes boats and maybe coastal cruisers but I question this as an ocean voyaging boat.

For now learn how to sail and buy only what you need for now. As you gain experience you will probably have your eye on a more robust boat to take to the ocean.

I just took another look at the listing on Yachtworld. I am guessing the boat you are buying is Ark Angel. The listing is sparse on details. It does not list the engine but lists a generator. You said the boat does not have a charging system. That size boat must have an inboard engine and virtually all inboard engines have alternators so I am confused by the no charging system remark. Please expand on that.

I also see that you will be on a mooring. Monroe St. Harbor? I think Belmont and Montrose still have a few moorings? You would have much better access to your boat is a slip. I thought they were plentiful now in Chicago.

[DeeBee]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Before you buy a windvane and a windlass it would be best to decide if this is your forever boat. Endeavors are good Great Lakes boats and maybe coastal cruisers but I question this as an ocean voyaging boat.

For now learn how to sail and buy only what you need for now. As you gain experience you will probably have your eye on a more robust boat to take to the ocean.

I just took another look at the listing on Yachtworld. I am guessing the boat you are buying is Ark Angel. The listing is sparse on details. It does not list the engine but lists a generator. You said the boat does not have a charging system. That size boat must have an inboard engine and virtually all inboard engines have alternators so I am confused by the no charging system remark. Please expand on that.

I also see that you will be on a mooring. Monroe St. Harbor? I think Belmont and Montrose still have a few moorings? You would have much better access to your boat is a slip. I thought they were plentiful now in Chicago.

Don't believe everything you read.
There is a Yanmar.

The charging system isn't working, not connected or there is something wrong with it.

There are slips available, but the $$ is 2x (or more) what a mooring is.

I'm not planning on any ocean crossings of days at a time. I would like to go island hopping in the Caribbean; but that's a few years away and a lot of knowledge gained. For now, she's stuck on the hard until the spring which gives me time to organize my way and figure things out.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by DeeBee

Don't believe everything you read.
There is a Yanmar.

The charging system isn't working, not connected or there is something wrong with it.

There are slips available, but the $$ is 2x (or more) what a mooring is.

I'm not planning on any ocean crossings of days at a time. I would like to go island hopping in the Caribbean; but that's a few years away and a lot of knowledge gained. For now, she's stuck on the hard until the spring which gives me time to organize my way and figure things out.

If the alternator is broken that's the first thing you should fix. Solar or not you want a functioning alternator. Having all basic systems functioning on the boat should be your first concern.

I am sure a slip is a fortune compared to a buoy. 24 hour easy access to your boat is worth it. If you are going to be in Monroe dependence on the water taxi will be a real drudge.

[MVNightWatch]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

you will be better off ensuring you AP is up to the task and that you have the power to run it (most of the time it doesn't take that much really)

Far as other upgrades and "stuff" my advise is to not jump the gun getting things. The next couple of years before you retire with result in you getting basics all worked out. For other stuff I feel it is better to head out without toys and see if you miss them to the point that you really want them.

Amen from me. Wind steering is great if you're crossing the Pacific. I cruise the Atlantic ICWW with the remote from my autohelm in hand, diesel running 1800 rpm, 4knots, 0.5 gal/hour of diesel fuel, and just click the port or stbd key once or twice to finetune the course. I'm motoring or motorsailing with jib. It's surprisingly effective to eat up miles.

[MVNightWatch]

Parenthetically,
Just a note, being a single/solo sailor, things like a remote controlled windlass is on my 2nd year list.

Please wear a pfd every daggone time you go forward to raise anchor! Big danger there. Many get kicked overboard from wakes, etc., etc., etc., Also, have your cell phone or handheld vhf in your pocket. another friend fell ob, got leg caught in rode, hung upside down for hours til another boat came by. Safety first! And Monroe and Belmont harbors bring back some great memories from the 70s and 80s there! Learned to sail on an O'Day 22 thats probably still on a can there!! Thanks.