Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-08-2020, 04:48   #31
Registered User
 
LittleWing77's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,452
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormalong View Post
... in a few years when he retires.

Sure buy a water maker that he can't use and will be technologically obsolete by the time he might use it. Buy a big dinghy with a 15 horsepower outboard that it too big to carry on his Endeavour 33. Put a windlass on a small light weight boat.

In a few years he will either be in a different boat or not go cruising. Spend a lot of money on things he can't use where he is and let it depreciate/deteriorate?

Right now he needs to learn how to sail, not how to load down his boat with stuff he doesn't need and may never need.
Right on, Stormalong!

(And also Thinwater - as always with Thinwater )

DeeBee, sail, sail, sail and oh, did I mention SAIL?

Then make any changes, as needed for you.

Good luck!
LittleWing77
LittleWing77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2020, 07:18   #32
Registered User
 
ejjawhite's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Hull, MA
Boat: CAL 35 III
Posts: 52
Send a message via Skype™ to ejjawhite
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Make sure to check the mast step, as Endeavor was known to use steel on some models, and I believe the 33 was one. I passed on one that the step was almost totally corroded through. However, the fix wouldn’t have to be very expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeBee View Post
So I just put money down on my first boat, an '83 Endeavour 33. The plan is to really get comfortable sailing around Lake Michigan (Chicago, USA) until I retire in a few years then take off for the Atlantic. Follow the sun and avoid hurricanes. I expect to do longer and longer stints (I have lots of vacation time) to learn the lifestyle.

While I'm still employed I can afford to add the stuff I'll need/want.

The boat already has an autohelm, but I might add a windvane auto helm to conserve power, less reliant on electronics and also for backup.

I also built a DIY chart plotter (with AIS receiver) that seems to work in my livingroom. (total cost was about $300)

For those of you who have been cruising for a while, what are you must haves, would like to have, maybe if I hit the jackpot, I don't want and those things you added but never use?
ejjawhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2020, 08:58   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Chicago IL, USA
Posts: 22
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Thanks for all your comments and recommendations.

Just a note, being a single/solo female sailor, things like a remote controlled windlass is on my 2nd year list.

Someone mentioned about not needing solar, on the contrary, that's my number one must add immediately. I'll be on a mooring not a dock and the boat I have my eye on doesn't even have a charging system, so I'll be starting from zero there. That is a no brainer. I'll also be replacing the older AGM batteries with LiFePo4 at 24 volts with a 24v-12v converter.

A dinghy is definitely in my long term plan but for now, a 2-person kayak will foot the bill.

I do like the idea of a new mattress (with something under it to allow airflow) but let's see where it's most comfortable to sleep first. Sounds like year 2.

Water filtration system sounds like a good idea but watermaker will wait.

A/C let's see what the budget in year 2 or 3 looks like.

This year (it's on the hard until spring) is repairing delam issues, electrical rebuild, replace one of the thru-hulls that's leaking, watching for sales on new VHF radios, update emergency supplies in the spring... etc

Thank you all for your support.
DeeBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2020, 11:57   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 295
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Self steering is so critical on passages. I think that a serious cruising boat should have 3 methods of self steering. 2 of my boats had vane steering and 2 auto pilots. One below deck and one above. 1 of my boats had 3 electronic pilots. One below deck with lots of spare parts, and 2 wheel pilots. Really the best combo is a vane gear and 2 electronic pilots. One below, one above. The above is particular ly useful in light airs aft or calms. And light to moderate winds well forward where the boat can practically balance and sail itself anyway.

Bottom line, you don’t want to be stuck steering 24 hrs a day with small crew. Gets old real quick. More than once I have been down to one pilot, But not none!

To get an Idea of what you can cruise with:
Sailed without radar for decades (yeah showing my age). The first boat that I cruised had an entire equipment list of: Flashlights 3, lead line, hand bearing compass, “ships compass” Sextant, portable receiver for WWV time tics. one anchor, 3 sails, (main , jib and spinnaker), VHF, one car battery and no way to charge it, (just used it mainly for VHF), and kerosine lights and cooking. Yeah, I was young and crazy. Today, a very different story, and extensive equipment list!
merrydolphin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2020, 12:15   #35
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,576
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrydolphin View Post
Self steering is so critical on passages. I think that a serious cruising boat should have 3 methods of self steering. 2 of my boats had vane steering and 2 auto pilots. One below deck and one above. 1 of my boats had 3 electronic pilots. One below deck with lots of spare parts, and 2 wheel pilots. Really the best combo is a vane gear and 2 electronic pilots. One below, one above. The above is particular ly useful in light airs aft or calms. And light to moderate winds well forward where the boat can practically balance and sail itself anyway.

Bottom line, you don’t want to be stuck steering 24 hrs a day with small crew. Gets old real quick. More than once I have been down to one pilot, But not none!

To get an Idea of what you can cruise with:
Sailed without radar for decades (yeah showing my age). The first boat that I cruised had an entire equipment list of: Flashlights 3, lead line, hand bearing compass, “ships compass” Sextant, portable receiver for WWV time tics. one anchor, 3 sails, (main , jib and spinnaker), VHF, one car battery and no way to charge it, (just used it mainly for VHF), and kerosine lights and cooking. Yeah, I was young and crazy. Today, a very different story, and extensive equipment list!
I so agree. It amazes me how many take of with one autopilot.

I've had my main autopilot fail twice, no problem, Hydrovane to the rescue. Also have a tiller pilot that attaches to the Hydrovane.

I'm currently replacing my complete autopilot, I'm that paranoid that I'm also repairing the old ram and leaving the old (not so smart ) system in place.

I love redundancy.
daletournier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2020, 06:55   #36
Registered User
 
theBigKahuna's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: flexible
Boat: Leopard 40 Sailing Catamaran
Posts: 97
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Agree w/ thinwater... get used to the boat; talk to other boaters and cruisers;

We had a laundry list of things we wanted to change/add to our catamaran after purchase last July. Many of the items are still on the list, but that list gets reprioritized.

We're actually down in Monroe Harbor and just upgraded all our fenders. With the water levels so high, many of the docks are just flat out dangerous to tie up to! Figure we'll also need them when we bring her back down south (I tell folks FL will be the furthest north you'll see us) with storms/hurricanes.
__________________
a pessimist says "it can't get any worse", an optimist says "yes it can!!"
theBigKahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2020, 12:41   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 751
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

I agree strongly with the "sail a while, see what you need" crowd. And on an older smaller boat, it is super easy to over-improve and end up with a boat that you decide is too old and too small, but has too much invested in it.


But I'm chiming in with one comment -- your "chart plotter." If you DIY'd it for $300, I wouldn't call it a "chart plotter" but rather a computer based navigation system. If you are sailing a sailboat, especially a smaller one, and ultra-especially since you will be solo, a computer based system is a poor substitute for a chart plotter.


You need a system that can run 24/7, in any weather, readable in any sun, that you can readily see (and control) from the helm. A laptop/desktop/RasberryPI/Arduino is a useful addition below, but not good in 20 knots, with rain and spray, as you try and motor into a strange harbor after dark. You need to be able to use one hand to steer the boat, another hand to deal with that line that got loose, and with your third hand adjust the zoom so you can see how far you are off that bar.


While I don't really agree with "device" based systems, I do see that in certain use-cases, an app is suitable. Many phones now are waterproof, the battery can last for several hours, and with a bimini, the sun is not as much an issue. With a RAM mount, it starts to get close to a suitable chart plotter, especially if you tend to sail in familiar waters in predicable weather.


Computer based systems do have a use-case too. My father takes his 40' motor sailor from the FL Keys to MD and back every year, using a 15 year old (or more?) laptop (with several backups) running a charting program. But, he never heels more than 5-10 degrees, never gets rained on (pilot house), steers from a captains chair at the wheel, and never has to deal with sun. I'm jealous, as I'd love to use a computer based system, but it's impossible on a sailboat.
sailingharry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2020, 21:03   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 1,874
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeBee View Post
Thanks for all your comments and recommendations.

Just a note, being a single/solo female sailor, things like a remote controlled windlass is on my 2nd year list.

Someone mentioned about not needing solar, on the contrary, that's my number one must add immediately. I'll be on a mooring not a dock and the boat I have my eye on doesn't even have a charging system, so I'll be starting from zero there. That is a no brainer. I'll also be replacing the older AGM batteries with LiFePo4 at 24 volts with a 24v-12v converter.

A dinghy is definitely in my long term plan but for now, a 2-person kayak will foot the bill.

I do like the idea of a new mattress (with something under it to allow airflow) but let's see where it's most comfortable to sleep first. Sounds like year 2.

Water filtration system sounds like a good idea but watermaker will wait.

A/C let's see what the budget in year 2 or 3 looks like.

This year (it's on the hard until spring) is repairing delam issues, electrical rebuild, replace one of the thru-hulls that's leaking, watching for sales on new VHF radios, update emergency supplies in the spring... etc

Thank you all for your support.
Before you buy a windvane and a windlass it would be best to decide if this is your forever boat. Endeavors are good Great Lakes boats and maybe coastal cruisers but I question this as an ocean voyaging boat.

For now learn how to sail and buy only what you need for now. As you gain experience you will probably have your eye on a more robust boat to take to the ocean.

I just took another look at the listing on Yachtworld. I am guessing the boat you are buying is Ark Angel. The listing is sparse on details. It does not list the engine but lists a generator. You said the boat does not have a charging system. That size boat must have an inboard engine and virtually all inboard engines have alternators so I am confused by the no charging system remark. Please expand on that.

I also see that you will be on a mooring. Monroe St. Harbor? I think Belmont and Montrose still have a few moorings? You would have much better access to your boat is a slip. I thought they were plentiful now in Chicago.
stormalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2020, 05:02   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Chicago IL, USA
Posts: 22
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormalong View Post
Before you buy a windvane and a windlass it would be best to decide if this is your forever boat. Endeavors are good Great Lakes boats and maybe coastal cruisers but I question this as an ocean voyaging boat.

For now learn how to sail and buy only what you need for now. As you gain experience you will probably have your eye on a more robust boat to take to the ocean.

I just took another look at the listing on Yachtworld. I am guessing the boat you are buying is Ark Angel. The listing is sparse on details. It does not list the engine but lists a generator. You said the boat does not have a charging system. That size boat must have an inboard engine and virtually all inboard engines have alternators so I am confused by the no charging system remark. Please expand on that.

I also see that you will be on a mooring. Monroe St. Harbor? I think Belmont and Montrose still have a few moorings? You would have much better access to your boat is a slip. I thought they were plentiful now in Chicago.
Don't believe everything you read.
There is a Yanmar.

The charging system isn't working, not connected or there is something wrong with it.

There are slips available, but the $$ is 2x (or more) what a mooring is.

I'm not planning on any ocean crossings of days at a time. I would like to go island hopping in the Caribbean; but that's a few years away and a lot of knowledge gained. For now, she's stuck on the hard until the spring which gives me time to organize my way and figure things out.
DeeBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2020, 09:02   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 1,874
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeBee View Post
Don't believe everything you read.
There is a Yanmar.

The charging system isn't working, not connected or there is something wrong with it.

There are slips available, but the $$ is 2x (or more) what a mooring is.

I'm not planning on any ocean crossings of days at a time. I would like to go island hopping in the Caribbean; but that's a few years away and a lot of knowledge gained. For now, she's stuck on the hard until the spring which gives me time to organize my way and figure things out.
If the alternator is broken that's the first thing you should fix. Solar or not you want a functioning alternator. Having all basic systems functioning on the boat should be your first concern.

I am sure a slip is a fortune compared to a buoy. 24 hour easy access to your boat is worth it. If you are going to be in Monroe dependence on the water taxi will be a real drudge.
stormalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2020, 08:01   #41
Registered User
 
MVNightWatch's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Port of hail: Port Royal, SC
Boat: Dartsailer 27; 27' Dutch Motorsailer
Posts: 38
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
you will be better off ensuring you AP is up to the task and that you have the power to run it (most of the time it doesn't take that much really)

Far as other upgrades and "stuff" my advise is to not jump the gun getting things. The next couple of years before you retire with result in you getting basics all worked out. For other stuff I feel it is better to head out without toys and see if you miss them to the point that you really want them.
Amen from me. Wind steering is great if you're crossing the Pacific. I cruise the Atlantic ICWW with the remote from my autohelm in hand, diesel running 1800 rpm, 4knots, 0.5 gal/hour of diesel fuel, and just click the port or stbd key once or twice to finetune the course. I'm motoring or motorsailing with jib. It's surprisingly effective to eat up miles.
__________________
Let us look now upon the sea and ponder what its mystery is;
and let us lift our eyes to the far horizon,
beyond which we shall seek all those wonders still unseen.

Bill Wilson
MVNightWatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2020, 08:12   #42
Registered User
 
MVNightWatch's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Port of hail: Port Royal, SC
Boat: Dartsailer 27; 27' Dutch Motorsailer
Posts: 38
Re: Must have, wants, maybe, noway, whoops

Parenthetically,
Just a note, being a single/solo sailor, things like a remote controlled windlass is on my 2nd year list.

Please wear a pfd every daggone time you go forward to raise anchor! Big danger there. Many get kicked overboard from wakes, etc., etc., etc., Also, have your cell phone or handheld vhf in your pocket. another friend fell ob, got leg caught in rode, hung upside down for hours til another boat came by. Safety first! And Monroe and Belmont harbors bring back some great memories from the 70s and 80s there! Learned to sail on an O'Day 22 thats probably still on a can there!! Thanks.
__________________
Let us look now upon the sea and ponder what its mystery is;
and let us lift our eyes to the far horizon,
beyond which we shall seek all those wonders still unseen.

Bill Wilson
MVNightWatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
whoops... there goes the chain! Jim Cate The Sailor's Confessional 74 14-03-2018 13:23
Whoops ! Healer52 Cruising News & Events 9 10-08-2010 15:00
Inverter Out to Batt Charge In - whoops S/V Elusive Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 6 13-04-2007 08:57
Maybe, Maybe Not Troubledour Health, Safety & Related Gear 0 25-09-2003 01:09

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.