Living on a mud/drying berth? Keel type?

[conehead]

Hi all,

Complete newbie here (the kind who's yet to set foot on a boat!) and aspiring liveaboard, hoping someone here can answer my question - likely the first of many, so I apologise in advance if they seem foolish as I've no prior knowledge of sailing (doing my best but there's a lot to learn).

I don't currently have a boat and am in the research/planning phase, considering what model/design would be most appropriate for me. The residential marina I'm looking at only has tidal mud berths available, and from what I understand, a bilge/twin keel allows a boat to remain stable when it dries out. I wondered how this applies to liveaboards - for example, moving around on the boat when it's dried out. Do people actually live on yachts on mud berths, or is it not a done thing because of the stress on the keel roots/ other reasons?

I took a walk around a local marina and saw several boats with wooden 'legs' attached to the sides to keep them upright, so I'm also wondering if there are any other keel types that would be all right on a mud berth long term (4 months or more).

I'm based in the UK and definitely want to cross the English Channel once I've had enough sailing experience. Actually the ambition is to cruise up the Seine to Paris, so really I'd like to know if all that can be done with a bilge keel: live on a mud berth for several months, cross the Channel, then cruise up the Seine. Is it possible, or should I be looking at other keel types?

Any advice/ info would be great.

Thanks,
Merle

[Sos]

Living on a boat in a mud berth should not be a problem at all. Helps if you are on a pontoon with water and electric.
Bilge keels would be fine for what you want to do and yes you can walk around in the boat when dried out especially in a mud berth which is generally soft.
Also have the advantage of shallow draught and you can dry out on sandy beaches etc.
A fin keel will sail better but the bilge/twin keel will do what you want.

[crosswire]

Unrelated to mud, but if traveling up the Seine to Paris, you will need to have a very short mast or the ability to lower it; many low bridges. Take a look at the height of the long boats that cruise the river.

[Kettlewell]

It depends on the mud berth! I have sat in the mud in places where you absolutely could not walk safely on the mud if you had to get to shore (South Carolina). The mud was like quick sand--you could sink in and never get out again. OTOH, in the same area if tied to a dock that dried at low tide it was not a huge problem as long as your boat is designed to take the bottom.

[MartinF]

Bilge keel is definitely the best underbody for your purpose. Bilge keels are designed for this. Any movement will be absolutely minimal. You could even keep potted plants! Why not stroll down to some of the boats currently on the mud and ask their owners how they get on. You could also ask about shore access, water, electricity, parking etc.
M

[Kello]

Howdy Merle,

Welcome to the club of "ain't been there or done that, but I'm gonna try!"

The first lesson you need to learn is called: Local Knowledge. I've met sailors from all over the world and, with few exceptions, they are the most welcoming and helpful people, even power boaters, including the rich ones, are usually friendly and helpful. That marina picture you posted, or wherever your option to live is, ... go there and meet everyone on the docks (take good snacks and beer to prolong conversations) and you will have all your questions answered. Remember, these people might be your neighbors soon. And someday you might be helping the next "aspiring" boater.

My $0.02 about the keel - most places I've lived have been too shallow for boats over 5' of draft - only consider boats with fully encapsulated keels and full skeg-hung rudders, or boats with bilge keels.

[conehead]

Originally Posted by MartinF

Bilge keel is definitely the best underbody for your purpose. Bilge keels are designed for this. Any movement will be absolutely minimal. You could even keep potted plants! Why not stroll down to some of the boats currently on the mud and ask their owners how they get on. You could also ask about shore access, water, electricity, parking etc.
M

Thanks Martin - great advice.

[conehead]

Originally Posted by Kello

Howdy Merle,

Welcome to the club of "ain't been there or done that, but I'm gonna try!"

The first lesson you need to learn is called: Local Knowledge. I've met sailors from all over the world and, with few exceptions, they are the most welcoming and helpful people, even power boaters, including the rich ones, are usually friendly and helpful. That marina picture you posted, or wherever your option to live is, ... go there and meet everyone on the docks (take good snacks and beer to prolong conversations) and you will have all your questions answered. Remember, these people might be your neighbors soon. And someday you might be helping the next "aspiring" boater.

My $0.02 about the keel - most places I've lived have been too shallow for boats over 5' of draft - only consider boats with fully encapsulated keels and full skeg-hung rudders, or boats with bilge keels.

Hi Kello,

Thanks for response. Good advice. I've been loitering around my local boatyard and found you're right - everyone very friendly (so far), even when bombarded with questions by a total stranger wielding a beer bottle. Cheers!

[grantmc]

Welcome to the forum Conehead and I do hope you enjoy being a member and feel free to participate. You’ve an excellent plan and it’s relatively easily achieved for a small budget. And do please give us all some info on what you end up doing and your travels. So often we never hear outcomes.

The 'bilge keeler' design has a number of variations in terminology. Asymmetrical twin keels, for example is another. And such boats are imminently suited to your plans.

An issue no one has raised is using the toilet at low tide. You’ll need a holding tank and they’re relatively cheap and simple to install.

Also someone mentioned dropping the mast to travel rivers and canals in France. Very easy job with 3 people on a boat of the size you’re looking at. The mast of whatever vessel you might buy will be around 10 mtrs or less and it’s weight easily managed by 3 people. Typically too, one builds a small timber frame at each end of the boat, basically two bits of timber in the form of a cross and the mast sits in those strapped down. Alternatively, and especially for larger yachts, there are trucking companies that will raise/lower masts and freight same across country for you.

You will need a decent motor, and for the vessel of the size you’re planning even a small outboard of 5 hp or more will suffice. And I’d recommend such an outboard with either a long shaft or extra long shaft. Tohatsu produces a 5hp with an extra long shaft and I can tell you that mine has provided excellent service for many years and propelled my 26 foot yacht hundreds of miles.

And I’ll just take another moment to recommend a great read about a Kiwi guy. Similar plan and problems to yours except that the location was different. I’d recommend the book The Biggest Boat I Could Afford by Lee Hughes. Click here for the Amazon link. It’s an excellent and easy read and talks about many of the aspects and challenges and resolutions to living and travelling on a small yacht. Really basic issues like storing and retrieving your gear, managing food and cooking, laundry etc in a cramped environment, leaving your boat whilst you sight see or just visit the shops.

[boatman61]

Yes.. all this is possible with a bilge keeler or something like the Seal 28 which has a centreboard allowing it to dry out.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/seal-28/

[barnakiel]

I have seen cheap stock WWII gas masks somewhere on Etsy too.


Makes me wonder what chemical composition your local mud is.


b.