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Old 24-11-2019, 10:51   #16
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

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Correct me if I'm wrong here but, it is my belief that since I have a U.S. documented vessel, if I am living aboard that boat, I am "resident" in the United States, regardless of the vessel's location.
There is nationality of a boat [i.e., its flagging status] and then there is nationality / citizenship and residency characteristics of those that are aboard the vessel.

As to US documentation of a vessel:

Subpart A—General
§ 67.1Purpose.
A Certificate of Documentation is required for the operation of a vessel in certain trades, serves as evidence of vessel nationality, and permits a vessel to be subject to preferred mortgages.

. . .

§ 67.5Vessels eligible for documentation.
Any vessel of at least five net tons wholly owned by a citizen or citizens of the United States is eligible for documentation under this part. This includes, but is not limited to, vessels used exclusively for recreational purposes and vessels used in foreign trade.

The determination of residency is fact specific and also jurisdictionally specific, e.g., there being US federal and US State laws. US citizens are subject to worldwide income.

By way of example of the complexity of this subject matter reference the Advisory letter regarding Florida at the link below a snipet taken there from is copied below.

Advisory Legal Opinion - Definition of live-aboard vessels

"Live-aboard vessels" are defined for purposes of Chs. 327 and 328, F.S., in s. 327.02(13), F.S. (1984 Supp.), in the following terms:

"(13) "Live-aboard vessel" means:

(a) Any vessel used solely as a residence;

or

(b) Any vessel represented as a place of business, a professional or other commercial enterprise, or a legal residence.

A commercial fishing boat is expressly excluded from the term 'live-aboard vessel.'"

From this alternative statutory definition, it clearly appears that a vessel can be a "live-aboard vessel" under s. 327.02(13)(b), F.S. (1984 Supp.), even if it is not used solely as a residence, as long as it is "represented as a place of business, a professional or other commercial enterprise, or a legal residence." (e.s.) You suggest that the criteria applied by Florida courts in defining the term "legal residence" "are difficult to apply to any circumstances, but especially difficult in relation to vessels." To the extent that the courts in Ogden v. Ogden, 33 So.2d 870 (Fla. 1947), and Brown v. Brown, 123 So.2d 382 (2 D.C.A. Fla.,1960), have emphasized that the best single evidence of legal residence is where the person says it is, you further suggest that "if municipal authorities were required to ask an individual to acknowledge that the vessel is his 'legal residence,' the municipal authorities would be at the mercy of the public in determining where their jurisdiction lies" for purposes of s. 327.60(2), F.S. Accordingly, you alternatively phrase your first question as an inquiry into the indicia municipal marine patrol officers may look to assist in determining whether a vessel is a legal residence and thus within the definition of "live-aboard vessel" at s. 327.02(13)(b), F.S.

A "legal residence" is a location where a person is presently living with the present intention of making it his permanent abode. Minick v. Minick, 149 So. 483 (Fla. 1933); Wade v. Wade, 113 So. 374 (Fla. 1927). And see Walker v. Harris, 398 So.2d 955, 958 (4 D.C.A. Fla., 1981), stating: "A person may have several temporary local residences, but can have only one legal residence. A legal residence, or domicile, is the place where a person has fixed an abode with the present intention of making it their [sic] permanent home." See also Black's Law Dictionary 807 (5th Ed. 1979), defining "legal residence" as "[p]ermanent fixed place of abode which person intends to be his residence and to which he intends to return despite . . . temporary absences." While subjective intention is the best evidence of "legal residence," Florida courts have clearly recognized that residence may be established by objective facts as well. See Brown v. Brown, supra, at 383, stating that "residence is a matter of objective fact." See also Walker v. Harris, supra, at 958, stating that, although subjective intent is the best proof of domicile, "[t]his is not to suggest that proof of legal residence cannot be measured by objective factors[.]"

Therefore, I am of the opinion that vessels which are used as a person's primary residence may be "live-aboard vessels" for purposes of municipal regulation permitted by s. 327.60(2), F.S., even though they are not used solely as a residence but are also used for recreational purposes, if such vessels are represented as such person's "legal residence" pursuant to s. 327.02(13)(b), F.S. (1984 Supp.), and that the determination of whether such vessels are represented as a person's legal residence may be based on a combination of the person's subjective intent and objective facts. However, this office ordinarily refrains from resolving questions of fact in order to avoid an unwarranted intrusion into the province of the judiciary; thus, I must decline to discuss specific objective "indicia" from which municipal marine patrol officers may infer that a vessel is a "legal residence" and therefore a "live-aboard vessel" for purposes of s, 327.60(2). Such questions of fact can only be resolved by a court of law in appropriate judicial proceedings. See, e.g., the court's discussion of the testimony of record in Walker v. Harris, supra; and the relative weight to be accorded thereto. Cf. United States v. Calhoun, 566 F.2d 969 (5th Cir. 1978) (court's discussion of objective facts in evidence supporting determination of taxpayer's "legal residence").
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Old 24-11-2019, 10:51   #17
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt Pat View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong here but, it is my belief that since I have a U.S. documented vessel, if I am living aboard that boat, I am "resident" in the United States, regardless of the vessel's location.
Doubt it.
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Old 24-11-2019, 10:53   #18
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

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Originally Posted by Cpt Pat View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong here but, it is my belief that since I have a U.S. documented vessel, if I am living aboard that boat, I am "resident" in the United States, regardless of the vessel's location.
Your vessel registration has nothing to do with your residency. You will be a US resident untill you obtain legal residency in some other country.
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Old 24-11-2019, 11:01   #19
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

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Your vessel registration has nothing to do with your residency. You will be a US resident untill you obtain legal residency in some other country.
I'm not sure but it sounds as if the rights granted in the US are expected. If the vessel is in feign waters their laws apply.
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Old 24-11-2019, 11:07   #20
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

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I'm not sure but it sounds as if the rights granted in the US are expected. If the vessel is in feign waters their laws apply.
Certainly local laws apply. The confusion is between the laymens use of Residency as the place I am currently residing in, such as my boat anchored in Tasmania. Versus the legal meaning of Residency. Being anchored in Tasmania does not make you an Australian legal resident.
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Old 24-11-2019, 11:08   #21
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

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Correct me if I'm wrong here but, it is my belief that since I have a U.S. documented vessel, if I am living aboard that boat, I am "resident" in the United States, regardless of the vessel's location.
The taxation of aliens by the United States is significantly affected by the residency status of such aliens.

Although the immigration laws of the United States refer to aliens as immigrants, nonimmigrants, and undocumented (illegal) aliens, the tax laws of the United States refer only to RESIDENT and NONRESIDENT ALIENS.

In general, the controlling principle is that resident aliens are taxed in the same manner as U.S. citizens on their worldwide income, and nonresident aliens are taxed according to special rules contained in certain parts of the Internal Revenue Code (hereinafter referred to as I.R.C. or the Code). A major distinguishing feature of this special tax regime concerns the source of income: a nonresident alien (with certain narrowly defined exceptions) is subject to federal income tax only on income which is derived from sources within the United States and/or income that is effectively connected with a U.S. trade or business.

The residency rules for tax purposes are found in I.R.C. § 7701(b). Although the tax residency rules are based on the immigration laws concerning immigrants and nonimmigrants, the rules define residency for tax purposes in a way that is very different from the immigration laws. If you are an alien (not a U.S. citizen), you are considered a nonresident alien, unless you meet one of two tests for the calendar year (January 1 – December 31).

You are admitted to the United States as, or change your status to, a Lawful Permanent Resident under the immigration laws (the Green Card Test);
You pass the Substantial Presence Test (which is a numerical formula which measures days of presence in the United States);
In some cases aliens are allowed to make elections which override the Green Card Test and the Substantial Presence Test, as follows:

They make what is called the "First-Year Choice" (a numerical formula under which an alien may pass the Substantial Presence Test one year earlier than under the normal rules). Refer to the discussion of "First-Year Choice" in Chapter 1 of Publication 519, U.S. Tax Guide for Aliens;
They elect with their resident alien or U.S. citizen spouse to be treated as a resident;
They claim a closer connection to a foreign country; or
They take advantage of the effect of tax treaties for the definition of tax residence.
Under these rules, even an undocumented (illegal) alien under the immigration laws who passes the Substantial Presence Test will be treated for tax purposes as a resident alien.
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Old 24-11-2019, 11:51   #22
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

In my personnel opinion OFC to the OP if you say you have paid into the German system and you only 48 then you have not paid fully into the system this will be due to how long a normal resident of Germany qualifies for the State pension and contributes to it, it is relevant you made lots of Money and got taxed on it, that is the way of the world , especially in the EU , but you want to not pay tax anymore in your birth country but are happy to abuse the system if you need medical care, or consulate assistance if in a foreign country , therefore you are trying to scam a system , for your own benefit while taking away from German citizens living in Germany.
I leave in 2020 and am also under the 183 day rule , but will get around this by keeping my bank account open paying my taxes in that country and keeping an address.
I have no issues paying into a system to make sure others and myself benefit to a country that has looked after me since I was born. IMHO
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Old 24-11-2019, 11:54   #23
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

I have been fighting this fight for the last 40 plus years. I ended up being:
(get this ) A DEEMED RESIDENT of Canada and a FORMER RESIDENT of USA
and a Citizen of Canada and United Kingdom . I kept one bank in Canada and direct deposited my pension Income payments from both US and CAN to the same bank but different accounts one handling only US Currency and one the other. I also had an account in BVI for design and consult fees. BVI Where is that I would say?
The problem is not immediate but political. As governments change .
All politicians hate Cruisers as we have something they cannot steal (readily)
Freedom! So when you get somewhere where your Single Sideband is the only or best link you can get, Then they change the rules and try to rob your Bank.
There is a solution---- TURN OFF THE RADIO-- That is what I have done and had my bank forward my bank records for the previous six months to any Government that wants them. That seems to damp the enthusiasm very quickly because it makes work! Mike Pope If it works for you -- my Currency
is called BOB ( Bottles of Bombay)
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Old 24-11-2019, 12:44   #24
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

I am not familiar with German tax law, however, for example, in the U.S., you are subject to U.S. taxes as a citizen regardless of where you live. Many countries have treaties with the U.S. to avoid double taxation if you claim residency elsewhere. However, most countries tax their CITIZENS unless they provide some kind of proof that they are paying taxes to another country.
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Old 24-11-2019, 13:30   #25
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

Philippines, I am Austrian and use PRA, Philippine Retirement Authority, not affiliated with a native you pay a rather high DEPOSIT. But after a few months you are entitled to take it out for investment (apartment, business etc). No time limit on absence or presence. Huge German community and nice to sail,
majority speaks English,
https://pra.gov.ph/
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Old 24-11-2019, 13:56   #26
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

Going back to the original post. It may well depend on the amount of income.
In the US it takes a guru to figure it out, internationally? I try to have as little income above what is necessary to live comfortably.
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Old 24-11-2019, 14:13   #27
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

Pension: medical help is quite cheap and fast, though if your country of residence is Germany it's free. In the Phil consider it private. Many, not all, remain registered in the home country, tax & insurance paid. By electronic banking send your money via Iremit to your BDO remittance account (free), comes with debit- & credit card, just like here. Money transfer Germany to BDO is immediately. If you wish, you may cancel your German registration, then you loose your German Social Security, but receive untaxed pension, but read for yourself.
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Old 24-11-2019, 14:23   #28
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

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Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
HI all,


i hope some of you can help and point me in the right direction.
What country as residency to choose as a liveabord, so no taxes on foreign income/foreign pension and they don't bother you being 183days min in their country???
Just need to proof residency in any state I want and I bank account to swiss and german pension fund to transfer my pension to which state I want. So which country to choose???



Background:
I have a German passport and at the moment residency in switzerland.
From 2o2o on I will retire early and get a pension from switzerland and Germany but I won't be living anymore in switzerland/no residency soon.

I will liveaboard and do a slow world circum for min 5 years starting in March 2020.
Both countries will transfer my pension to any country I will get residency.
What country as residency to choose as a liveabord, so no taxes on foreign income/foreign pension and they don't bother you being 183days min in their country???
Heard BVI should be a good place and easy to get a residency visa/residency, true?
Checkout Guatemala.

Rio Dulce, Guatemala is a noted Eastern Caribbean hurricane hole(about 20Km from the coast), overall is much less expensive than any 1/2 way comparable First World cruising destination, has 2-3 full service boat yards that are not expensive, a number of marinas that are not expensive, a West Marine Outlet, possible to anchor out for free. Lots of fellow American and European expat cruisers are based in Rio Dulce or seasonally based in Rio Dulce during hurricane season.

My wife and I are based in Guatemala. We live at 7000 ft elevation near Antigua, Guatemala. I now have Guatemala Residency so this info is 3 years old but I don't think anything has changed:

1. Visitors visa is good for 3 months and is renewable for another 3 months while in country. After 6 months all you have to do is leave Guatemala for 1 night(but not to another Central American Country). Most people go to Mexico. Then you can return to Guatemala and repeat the above.

2. But the good news is: Even if you don't do the above and stay more than 6 months you only must pay a fine of, I think, approximately, US$ 1.50 per day that you over stayed. In addition after over staying you can return to Guatemala without issue.

3. Guatemala will not try to tax income generated outside of Guatemala regardless of how long you stay.

4. I only over stayed my visitors visa on one occasion by 9 months. I do speak Spanish and was able to negotiate a fine of just US$ .50 per day at the Guatemalan City Airport just by being friendly, and making some self effacing jokes about what a dumb and poor gringo I am.

THE GOOD NEWS IS ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN GUATEMALA. THE BAD NEWS IS ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN GUATEMALA.

I have traveled extensively and have lived all over the USA and the World including Manhattan twice(8 years), London twice(3 years), Atlanta(15 years), Dallas(3 years), Cape Town, S. A.(3 years), Rio De Janeiro(2 years) , Cap Antibes(1 year).

Everybody is different about where it works for them to live. It is all about one's needs, wants and desires and the trade offs. Guatemala works well for my wife and I. We find the security issues more manageable in Guatemala versus Rio De Janeiro and Cape Town.
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Old 24-11-2019, 16:10   #29
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

First, you may be looking in the wrong forum. International Living has the most tax and residency information available. But since that forum is dominated by foreign real estate sales agents, be careful to check the advice with a Swiss and German lawyer before you act.
Second, you are talking about residency, not citizenship. You still keep your EU passport. Unlike the US, many countries don’t tax all income from where ever it is derived. I know Panama has a favorable retiree residency program, but i don’t know how many days you need to be present in country to claim. It may be worthwhile spending six months on your boat at anchor in some Caribbean luxury island (learning Spanish too) in order to qualify for the residency there. I would assume you don’t loose the residency once you obtain it unless you establish residency somewhere else. The rule in the US is “intent to stay indefinitely” so if you don’t intend to stay in any of these other countries indefinitely, you don’t loose your residency where you last resided— but that is only a general rule and only in the USA. And make sure you intend to stay indefinitely in the place of your residency. One way to measure the intent to stay indefinitely is to look at how long you actually live there.
Finally, i repeat, be transparent and get appropriate legal advice (in your case Swiss and German Attorneys). In the US tax efficiency is legal, tax fraud is not. Document the opinions you are relying on, in writing, so if there is any question you can claim good faith. And don’t get caught in any schemes. If its a wink and nod type thing, run like heck. Upfront, open and with good intentions and you’ll sleep better at night. Good luck.
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Old 24-11-2019, 16:16   #30
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Re: living aboard/world circum and country of residency as a pensioneer

Google 'Non Habitual Residency in Portugal'. Key points:


- You pay tax in Portugal at 0% on foreign income for 10 years.

- The country you come from must have a double tax treaty with Portugal. In which case you don't pay tax there. You leave your pensions where they are. Germany and Clock&ChocLand both qualify.

- You need be in Portugal for 184 days OR have a residency there with the intention of living in it. There are companies that help you meet this requirement without having to be in Portugal.
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