Best liveaboard and cruising choice

[JasonS]

Don’t knock cats out just because of cost. Your budget, assuming you have money to maintain the boat, is definitely doable.

We’ve owned our Manta 40 for 10 years, cruising full time for last 2 years. We’ve both been sailing since we were young and been on many monohulls and cats. For us, the positives of a cat made the decision easy.

More room - 2 Queen staterooms, 2 full heads with 1 walk in shower that fits two, a double stateroom. Third shower outside, fridge and freezer space to rival a home, huge pantry, room for 2 SUPs, two paddle boards, a brownies hookah, 4 scuba tanks, etc etc)
Engine redundancy
Tons of space for solar (we have 1175 and could easily double that if needed)
Generator
Don’t rock terribly side to side in anchorages

As others suggested, go take some courses and try both monos and cats.

Check out our FB page if you like. We’ve detailed our adventures since moving aboard full time and it goes back to when we first bought the boat and our preparations, our repairs, etc
Facebook.com/BreatheSailDive

[sailian89]

You can learn a lot about sailing quickly by volunteering for race crew at a local club. Learning not only how to get from a to b safely, but why which adjustments make a boat go faster improves understanding quickly. And there’s always a need for RELIABLE crew

[MJH]

Originally Posted by bremin001

Hi folks,

My wife and I are contemplating to move to a live-aboard boat and change our life pace as we are crossing our 50s. I assume that similar to many others, we would like to stay on a remote anchorages rather than docks when possible and sail in between, crossing the oceans hopefully as we are getting more comfortable with our skills.

We are looking for a monohull that would be comfortable at anchorage and safe to cross the ocean. Perhaps in 200-250k price range.

I was thinking to learn the basics and get comfortable around Caribbeans before exploring further. Many islands and areas there are shallow, which made me think about a lifting keel. How reasonable/safe/comfortable is the lifting keel? This of cause limits me to only a few boats.

Catamarans are out of our price range, I think, and are more expensive to not only purchase, but maintain.

I heard that full keel boats are more comfortable both at windy anchorage as well as during crossing as they roll less - is this true?

Most of the newer boats have bolt on keel that is obviously cheaper to produce, but also increase a risk of catastrophic failure if you go over a deadhead/other floating object in the seas and do not protect the ruder as well as the full keel boats. How serious this risk is when sailing?

I was looking at Pogo 44 or 12.5, primarily due to it being almost twice as fast as many other yachts (I believe this adds an edge to safety) AND one of the boats available with a swing keel. I also like the idea that due to sandwich construction it is considered unsinkable.

The other two options I was looking for is Beneteau 40.1 and Sun Odyssey 380 vs 410. I believe both available with lift keels as well.

Another thing is I am planning to make our boat as self sufficient as possible. Including the obvious choices - solar panels, a large bank of Li batteries, possibly wind generator, water maker etc. One thing I am not certain is to replace the inboard diesel motor with electric one.

I would like your opinions about
- my boat choices
- comfort while sailing/anchorage/live-aboard of these boats
- thoughts about lift keel vs full keel vs bolt on keel
- other boats I should consider
- electric motor instead of diesel engine
- any other ideas you want to share to educate me as a complete novice.

Thank you, B

- my boat choices
There are too many to list here. Everyone has a different opinion/bias. Visit as many boats as you can to see what you like and don't like...there is no shortcut on this big decision. Then research them on saildata.com and keep notes. Take your time.

- comfort while sailing/anchorage/live-aboard of these boats
As we get older most of us prefer a comfortable ride. Look at the COMFORT ratio. At anchorage much depends on your anchoring skill and gear. Learn to do it properly. My definition of a live-aboard is someone living full time on a boat in a marina but you say you don't want to do that.

- thoughts about lift keel vs full keel vs bolt on keel
A full keel will track better than any other and an asset on long passages with a wind vane but turning radius is greater, better protection on a grounding but most backup like a truck. Lift keel allows a shallower depth but more maintenance...I don't like them. Fin keels give better performance and you can turn on a dime but they don't track as well as full keels.

- other boats I should consider
Again, look at as many boats as you can. Don't be in a hurry. When you are sick of looking, look some more. Eventually you will find the one you want. There is no shortcut.

- electric motor instead of diesel engine
Forget it! Possibly consider it in another 20 years.

- any other ideas you want to share to educate me as a complete novice.
Again, don't be in a hurry...my last boat search took five years. Learn something on every boat you visit. By local if you can as long distances are problematic and shipping isn't cheap. Get off the laptop and onto the docks but leave your checkbook at home. Get your spouse involved. When you settle on a boat hire the best sailboat surveyor you can find not one that the salesman recommends. Warning: Interior features sell boats but all the action is the outside...think of the entire boat and how it sails in all conditions...your life may depend on it. Write down how you intend to use this boat and then look for the one that best fits that task. However, no boat does all things well, i.e. TRADEOFFS rule!

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Well congratulations on your successful installation of LifePO4 battery system, BMS, solar system, wind generator, watermaker, and swtiching out your diesel for electric power and having the knowledge and skills to repair and maintain them and cross oceans with them. Most people do not have your skills.

I love the sarcasm.

[sailian89]

There is a very helpful book, easy read, from
Www.twocansail.com
Title is something about a five step process to take the drama out of the dream.

[motion]

I love my IP38. Has all you want.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by motion

I love my IP38. Has all you want.

That's great for you
But how do you know it has everything the OP wants?
Certainly doesn't have all we want, let alone need, not even close

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

That's great for you
But how do you know it has everything the OP wants?
Certainly doesn't have all we want, let alone need, not even close

Based on the opening post I doubt the op knows what he wants. He knows what he guesses he wants based on some old book. Itemeber those days and feel I got away early and only loss $20k to fix.

[Cadence]

I was referring to boatpoker's post.
I believe he was being sarcastic about posts that are a bio and have nothing to do with the original post.

[canyonbat]

My brother-in-law has a Pogo 36. Super fun boat to sail but not what I would consider great for cruising. It is incredibly noisy below while underway. It is very spartan with every effort being made to be as light as possible. It has a plethora of control lines that crisscross the cockpit making moving about very tricky. I also agree with a previous poster in that is unlikely to be in your price range.

[Dave Isom]

G’day bremin001, welcome and it’s great that you are keen to become a cruiser. There’s been a lot of good advice and I concur with KompetentKrew and suggest you digest and heed his advice. There’s always much to learn , I’ve been sailing for 55 years and done a lot of long distant cruising yet still make the odd stuff up and learn something nearly every time I take my boat out ...still ! The only things I would add is to establish whether your partner actually likes sailing, firstly on a mono hull and then on a catamaran. Not being sexist here but I know of many cases where the female partner just doesn’t take to it for various reasons. I also know women who have circumnavigated solo . She might take to a cat. as you’ve mentioned roll at anchor. Obviously the cat will roll less. I’d say for a start get some lessons by a good instructor who doesn’t yell or raise their voice preferably in a small boat ( even a dinghy, that’s a good place to start )Then move to a slightly bigger boat and go with a charter skipper until you BOTH feel competent enough to handle a boat on your own.
I would NOT consider a boat over 40 feet, far to big to handle , big sails, too fast and if the wind gets up it will scare you both. Start small and gain some experience and confidence. Do navigation courses together, maybe let her do the Nav. Good luck.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by canyonbat

My brother-in-law has a Pogo 36. Super fun boat to sail but not what I would consider great for cruising. It is incredibly noisy below while underway. It is very spartan with every effort being made to be as light as possible. It has a plethora of control lines that crisscross the cockpit making moving about very tricky. I also agree with a previous poster in that is unlikely to be in your price range.

Sounds like the 30ft Diamond I bought as my first foray into performance boats.(noisy Spartan spaghetti boat)
They can be had for $5000

[JC Reefer]

If you still have the original choices in your mind then I would scratch off the jenn Sun Odyssey 38. I have had both the 41 and 38. The 41 is a better boat all around. 38 fells too fat for her length and sails like a hog. I mean no offense to owners out there.

The other options seemed fine.

[TrentePieds]

Bremin:

We get many, many enquiries such as yours, and you are to be congratulated for finding our forum and asking your questions. That is where the fun begins :-)!

Now unfortunately, the fun tends to be had by the shellbacks rather than by the person asking the questions. But don't let that get in your way, for everything we say is meant to help you on your way, even when in many instances it can sound harsh and even dismissive and unkind to a landlubber.

So let me start with recommending a book you can certainly get off Amazon: The Proper Yacht by Arthur Beiser. The book is fifty years old, but for someone in your position it should be required reading. It is a wonderfully lucid, well-written treatise on what a "proper" cruising yacht should be and why. The treatise is interspersed with discussions of the merits of PARTICULAR yacht designs from the very small to the quite large. When you have that under your belt, come back and we can talk some more :-)!

Now, Beiser was a cruising man, as am I. He would share my opinion that the Pogo44 is USELESS as a cruising boat. Why is that? Too complicated to deal with in detail here, so suffice it to say that boat designs are evolved to suit a certain use of the boat, what Americans call the "use-case". And the Pogo44 doesn't meet the requirements of a CRUISING boat because it was designed to be a RACING boat. Cruising boats and racing boats are two different breeds of cat! Forgive me for being blunt, I don't mean it unkindly, but at your present stage of knowledge of boats and seafaring you wouldn't yet understand an explanation of the wherefores of the differences twixt the two genera of boats.

But when you've read Beiser, you'll have begun to formulate such an understanding.

Others have touched on the Pogo44 not being suitable for the use you have stated. Let me go further: It would be an absolute abomination! And, furthermore, it is a boat for VERY competent sailors - dead keen racing sailors with thousands of hard racing miles under their keels - not for novices. It's a boat for bashing around the buoys in Chesapeake Bay or San Francisco Bay. For a novice it would be deadly in the open ocean!

Now go read Beiser. Then let's talk again. I promise you that if you have the unique blend of humility and fortitude it requires we can make a decent cruising skipper of you :-)!

All the best,

TrentePieds

[kmacdonald]

Get out and kick some keels. See what you like and don't like. Amenities are everything in a liveaboard. Don't oversize the anchor.