Insurance increase

[daletournier]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've send several applications away.

[daletournier]

So, explain this to me. I've contacted a number of overseas insurance brokers/companies eg Gowries and none will issure me, each one directs me back to Australian insurance agents such as Pantanius Australia.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by daletournier

So, explain this to me. I've contacted a number of overseas insurance brokers/companies eg Gowries and none will issure me, each one directs me back to Australian insurance agents such as Pantanius Australia.

Is that liability only or no full coverage?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Is that liability only or no full coverage?

Won't quote me on either. I'm waiting to here back from another company in France.

Pantanius in Australia has got back to me with a liability quote of $900aud, I'll probably go that way. They want over $5,000 for full comp, it was $3,200 last year. I'm only insureing for 200k aud which is below market value.

They are a business and are entitled to charge what they wish. When I was in business it was critical to understand price sensitivity, there was that tipping point where my product lost value or at least perceived value. For me full comp insurance just passed that line.... thats just my opinion.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Won't quote me on either. I'm waiting to here back from another company in France.

Pantanius in Australia has got back to me with a liability quote of $900aud, I'll probably go that way. They want over $5,000 for full comp, it was $3,200 last year. I'm only insureing for 200k aud which is below market value.

They are a business and are entitled to charge what they wish. When I was in business it was critical to understand price sensitivity, there was that tipping point where my product lost value or at least perceived value. For me full comp insurance just passed that line.... thats just my opinion.

The $900 sounds cheap. The insurance company is on the hook for millions of dollars - not sure how much liability you got quoted. Now add in an additional 200k for your boat that they are on the hook for and the price goes up 5 times. Doesn't make sense to me.

As long as loosing the $200k value of the boat isn't going to financially radically change your life, then self insuring makes some sense. Its not for me, but I get it.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The $900 sounds cheap. The insurance company is on the hook for millions of dollars - not sure how much liability you got quoted. Now add in an additional 200k for your boat that they are on the hook for and the price goes up 5 times. Doesn't make sense to me.

As long as loosing the $200k value of the boat isn't going to financially radically change your life, then self insuring makes some sense. Its not for me, but I get it.

Hi Paul, yep happy enough with the $900 for liability only, not keen to pay 5k for full comp. Obviously it's a personal choice, wouldn't say I can absorb a 200k loss without a great deal of pain BUT self insuring my own boat is starting to look more appealing.

Like I said a business is entitled to charge what they want, price discovery comes about by pricing and feed back, they'll be profitable or not.

[Boatguy30]

What is the liability limit for $900 premium. Surely only around 500k or 1 mil US. Not several million as suggested.

And furthermore, a non US flagged vessel would be much cheaper to insure for liability. As any claim against a US vessel is filed in US court regardless of where the incident takes place.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Here in the US if you want insurance to cover you out of country your choices are basically Pantaenius or IMIS. And the premium goes down *dramatically* if you just go with liability.

Is Pantaenius back in the U.S. Market? I tried to use them a few years ago and was told they were no longer underwriting in the U.S. neither full coverage or Liability only.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

What is the liability limit for $900 premium. Surely only around 500k or 1 mil US. Not several million as suggested.

And furthermore, a non US flagged vessel would be much cheaper to insure for liability. As any claim against a US vessel is filed in US court regardless of where the incident takes place.

US policies often have very low liability limits, like 300k, with a small increase in premium they go up to 1mil. Fuel spill is a seperate number typically at 800k. An Australian policy will have a $10 mil liability, which many marinas and boat yards require.

[Boatguy30]

Got a quote if just over $1000 for 500k in world wide liability. This for a relatively light displacement 34' boat.

Agent basically said "it's expensive because we're basically the only option"

What other companies are people using for international liability only?

My Boat US coastwise insurance is only about $180 and plenty of opportunity for a liability claim on the waterways of S Florida than in the middle of some ocean!

[DocBrauer]

Hi Dale. We use Poe-Ma. It was recommended by my bud who runs Rolly Tasker. I used Christophe iin Thailand. It has everything I needed to be able to go to Chagos. If interested I can give you the contact info. Contact me on Facebook

[chris in SG]

Just received from Pantaenius UK:

"Dear Mr (Chris)

The last few years have been difficult for the Yacht Insurance market with successive years of severe losses coupled with premium income failing to meet the rising cost of claims and administration. Insurers across the yacht insurance industry have been forced to reconsider their exposure in the marine sector, with some withdrawing completely.
As a result, 2019 will see a change to some of the insurers underwriting the Pantaenius Yacht Scheme. We are writing to advise you that these changes will have an impact on our ability to offer you yacht insurance.
The insurers underwriting the Pantaenius Yacht Scheme for 2019 are not licensed with the regulatory authorities to underwrite risks where the residence of the policyholder is Singapore.
Our records indicate that your policy falls into the above criteria. It is, therefore, with much regret that we must inform you that Pantaenius will be unable to continue offering yacht insurance beyond your renewal date, 01 February 2019. Needless to say, if our records are incorrect please let us know.
The complex nature of the regulation of insurance has seen a number of insurers restricting their areas of cover. This is due to limitations on insurers’ licensing, which has become problematic in certain locations. Unfortunately, this change is outside our control.
We are sorry that we find ourselves in this situation.
Should you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,

Mrs xxxx Customer Services Executive

Pantaenius UK Limited"


Actually we are cruising elsewhere in SE Asia, with Pantaenius approval, so Singapore is merely a postal address. But it's laughable that a yacht could be sitting in a marina in Singapore, outside the tropical storm zone, and be rejected based on that 'address'.

[john61ct]

No, this is a gambling game based on actuarial statistics, and they can take into account your eye color or being left-handed.

Maybe Singapore is full of fraudsters?

If it's not inconvenient, just notify them you're now a resident of Langkawi or Goa, whatever and see.

A good Broker might help advise you which domicile / slip location would help.

[chuckr]

Interesting -- IMIS has been insuring us for years from the USA to the Carib to a 2 handed crossing to the Black Sea to most of the Med. Last year our insurance went up a bunch but then we expected it with all the boats destroyed in the Carib. and someone has to pay for those who chose to stay and not move out of the zone.


This year our insurance did not go up. And we are wintering in Israel and have Egypt also included. HOWEVER we did discuss going into the Red Sea and they said we have to talk about that. Where do plan on sailing? Maybe that is part of the problem.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by chris in SG

.......
The insurers underwriting the Pantaenius Yacht Scheme for 2019 are not licensed with the regulatory authorities to underwrite risks where the residence of the policyholder is Singapore.
.....

If they arent legally able to write insurance to Singapore residents, you can't expect them to offer you a policy, no matter how safe the area maybe.