Do you think recreational boats should be licensed?

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Proof as the regs say is what you need....the regs have been posted or links provided.

I know people who have boated 60 years and tens of thousands of miles....still doesn't mean anything more than they are lucky and salty....doesn't mean they know the rules or much of anything else.

They might...but no more guarantee than a q5 year old with a safety certificate.

Then I guess I'm just a lucky salty one. Better than being a newly test just passed expert that thinks they therefore know it all. Learning is a continuous process and part of that learning is incorporating experience gained.

Who cares, this is getting boring and there is Masters golf tomorrow to watch

[Polux]

Originally Posted by psneeld

you must have some proof of boating safety education (with you) to pass though New Jersey waters.

New Jersey State Police - Marine Services Bureau - FAQ's

I had the impression that sail boasts did not need licence on most US states. In your state a sailboat with an engine will need a licence? This paragraph seems to indicate that they do:

"...
Exemptions:
A boat safety certificate is not required for non-powered vessels."

[Polux]

Well, I found what I had asked information for: Mandatory boating licences on the US. it may be of some help for someone cruising the US and relevant to this thread. The situation does not seem very different than in Europe even if in some European countries the required knowledge goes well beyond the "rules of the road":

"We know boater education can save lives and reduce accidents and injuries on the water. In the United States, more than 40 states have educational requirements for operating a boat or PWC on state waters. In Canada, all provinces have educational requirements for operating pleasure craft.
Boating safety is a concern for everyone on the water. Boaters can keep themselves and their passengers safe by learning about responsible boat operation, etiquette, and the rules of the waterways."

https://www.boat-ed.com/

For what I can see if a state demands a licence or a certification all that sail there have to have one. They accept equivalent licences from other states typically the law will say something like this:

"Reciprocity
All states, territories, and provinces will recognize boating education cards that meet NASBLA requirements and Canadian Pleasure Craft Operator Cards that meet Transport Canada’s requirements. (This is known as “reciprocity.”)"

If a state does not have a boat licence that will not except its citizens to have one if they are going to sail on a state where a licence is needed. On that case sailing courses or certifications are accepted.

Generally speaking the licences are not needed only for motorboats but for any boat with an engine (and that includes cruising sailboats).

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I don't doubt that that's what the law says. My point is that given enough $$ to hire a competent team of Con Law attorneys these requirements would be struck down as unconstitutional. The problem in real life of course is that an individual non Jersey boater even financially well endowed would rather either comply or not fight it all the way to SCOTUS. Nor is there any equivalent of NRA in the boating community to fight such cases (not that the NRA has been very successful lately) . That's how our Constitutional rights are lost - drip by drip.

Another example would be a driver from a state which does not require any vehicle inspections "passing through" a state which does. Again passing through can be a few days or weeks of the state is large as CA or TX. Or an hour if its RI. This of course changes once the vehicle is not passing through but is lingering longer than the usually statutorily set time.

BoatUS is the NRA of the boating world...and fights many boating issues in the US.

State and local mandatory equipment on boats varies too and is enforced. Trying to use driving and flying comparisons with boating only works when you have accurate knowledge and experience to back it.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

One of the amazing things I've realized living in a country that has fewer rules and regulations is how liberating it is. I don't have a form to fill out for every action, a permit to buy, a landscape of signs saying "do this, don't do that", or someone looking over my shoulder judging everything I do. Sure there are downsides but so far the upsides provide more value.

.

I'm sure that " country " can't be the USA. Never have I lived in a place with so much regulation

Dave


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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I still don't see a clear answer to this question. MA does not require ANY recreational boating license or certificate for adults over 18 years old. Neither does the United States so I do not have one (although in the late 90s I did take a sailing club ASA certifiable full Master 40 course but never got around to take the actual exams). If I take my USGC documented vessel to any of the countries which require some kind of license supposedly of all boaters do I lose the boat to their bureaucracy, go to jail, suffer fines or what? Did this ever happen to someone in exactly the same situation i.e. person from a state where such license is not required nor in possession of any kind of nautical license or certificate was stopped from sailing in country's waters or worse.

Stopped at sea , not that I'm aware off, but detained and not allowed to leave ,yes


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[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Polux

According to the Spanish law the ICC is only valid for Ireland and UK. Sailors of other countries have to have the licences or certificates referred to their own country. The Annex is on the end of the PDF, last pages and on it are referred the licences or certificates valid regarding each country, separately.

http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2014/10/1...2014-10344.pdf

So I can't sail in Spain then. Period.

Because my problem is that I do have a "Brevet van Yachtnavigator", but no paper to prove it, and my government won't give me a copy.
I do have an ICC though. I suppose the harbourmasters in Spain will deem it sufficient. After all if they can keep put the appearance...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

So I can't sail in Spain then. Period.

Because my problem is that I do have a "Brevet van Yachtnavigator", but no paper to prove it, and my government won't give me a copy.
....

That is very odd. A diploma is only passed once but a declaration that you have a brevet or a second copy of the brevet should be passed. They should have a register regarding the ones that have taken a brevet.

The brevet as any validity? Here the licences have to be renovated from time to time and if someone let pass a certain number of years without a proper re-validation they cancel the licence and we have to make again the examinations. Nothing like that regarding your case?

[Polux]

Anyway if you join a certificate that you live in Swiss, according with the Spanish, law you can also use the valid Swiss licence that I think you have.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Polux

Anyway if you join a certificate that you live in Swiss, according with the Spanish, law you can also use the valid Swiss licence that I think you have.

The Swiss license I have us only for Swiss inland waters. For the sea license I would have to spend a lot of money....


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[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Robin3

OK it says "required to have 'A' boater safety ID card' implying that any such card will do, not necessarily a DC specific one.

Correct, but I believe there is a list of "approved" courses.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I don't doubt that that's what the law says. My point is that given enough $$ to hire a competent team of Con Law attorneys these requirements would be struck down as unconstitutional. ............ .

No more unconstitutional than traffic laws, drug laws, etc. He would lose.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Correct, but I believe there is a list of "approved" courses.

My point was that I thought I could pass by or through DC and Joisey with my existing FLorida pass card without being arrested or unduly harassed


Link is here and it seems that it covers OK,

http://http://www.boaterexam.com/usa/

BUt I have to say it is pretty 'lowest common denominator stuff' and small boat 'centric

This is what I feel happens when 'compulsory' rules over 'voluntary',

but hey I'm still glad I can escape north if/when I want/need to!!

We just had our USCG voluntary safety check and got our pass stickers applied for to the main 36 ft sailboat boat and the RIB/motor we have on it's stern davits. THE CG person was actually more interested in my RYA issued ICC from the UK than the Boater test card (but did ask if I had one), but only from an interest/curiosity point of view I guess, same as with our radio operator licences also UK issued from way back.

Local boaters should feel suitably relieved that we are safe and legal if we approach close by them .

[Stu Jackson]

It's not that hard to learn, without licensing.

Foundation for Boating Safety and Clean Water [BOATUS.ORG]

When Things Went Wrong, Teen Boater Kept Cool

The Case for Taking a Boating Safety Course

TAMPA, FL, April 9, 2015 – When 15-year Matt Mainzer decided to take a couple of friends out boating one Sunday afternoon in late March, little did he know that he would find himself and his friends floating in life jackets hanging on to the overturned hull of the teen’s 17-foot flats boat awaiting rescue. But according to Mainzer, his boating safety education would help him survive the day. A graduate of the no-cost online boating safety course provided by the BoatUS Foundation for Boating Safety and Clean Water, Mainzer said, ‘I wouldn’t have known what I needed to know if I hadn’t taken the boating safety course.”
Of course most folks would recognize Mainzer’s ability to keep his cool and being prepared as the reason for the young trio’s successful rescue. According to Mainzer, as water started to fill the boat through a rapidly widening crack in the hull - eventually causing the three teens to jump overboard - the quick thinking Mainzer had everyone in life jackets.
Using a cell phone in a waterproof case, Mainzer had also already advised a friend of their predicament initiating a rescue response. Once the three teens were floating in the waters of the Tampa Bay, he remembered keep everyone hanging on to the boat’s hull, of which only a small portion of the bow was above water. And his boating guests, two female teens, also remained calm and followed their captain’s instructions. Rescuers were on scene in minutes.
“Matt’s ability to stay calm and take decisive action saved them from harm,” said BoatUS Foundation President Chris Edmonston. “And I’m sure Matt’s parents instilled in him a great sense of respect for boating safety. But we are also very pleased he was able to take away some key knowledge from our online boating safety course, like always having life jackets accessible and ready to go. Once water started entering the boat they were easy to put on. So often boaters keep them hidden in places that essentially render them useless.”
Mainzer, who has been boating since he was a two-year old, added, “The BoatUS Foundation Online Boating Safety Course was easy to take and wasn’t boring. I learned a lot.” As the boating season begins, boaters can find the BoatUS Foundation online courses at BoatUS.org/courses.

###

The BoatUS Foundation for Boating Safety and Clean Water is a national leader promoting safe, clean and responsible boating. Funded primarily by donations from the over half-million members of Boat Owners Association of The United States (BoatUS), the non-profit provides innovative educational outreach directly to boaters and anglers with the aim of reducing accidents and fatalities, increasing stewardship of America's waterways and keeping boating safe for all. A range of boating safety courses – including 33 free state courses – can be found at BoatUS.org/courses.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Robin3

My point was that I thought I could pass by or through DC and Joisey with my existing FLorida pass card without being arrested or unduly harassed


Link is here and it seems that it covers OK,

http://http://www.boaterexam.com/usa/

BUt I have to say it is pretty 'lowest common denominator stuff' and small boat 'centric

This is what I feel happens when 'compulsory' rules over 'voluntary',

but hey I'm still glad I can escape north if/when I want/need to!!

We just had our USCG voluntary safety check and got our pass stickers applied for to the main 36 ft sailboat boat and the RIB/motor we have on it's stern davits. THE CG person was actually more interested in my RYA issued ICC from the UK than the Boater test card (but did ask if I had one), but only from an interest/curiosity point of view I guess, same as with our radio operator licences also UK issued from way back.

Local boaters should feel suitably relieved that we are safe and legal if we approach close by them .

The USCG has little or no interest in State regulated boating safety regulations...they certainly have no jurisdiction unless they have a cross agreement with the states in a case by case area dependent basis.

All the people I know that the USCG have boarded, never even asked.

In NJ it's the state or local police and they can be rabid about it.

Usually, larger cruising boats aren't targeted as the officers are often by themselves and much more than a once over is difficult compared to small, vessels and personal watercraft.