Switching to wood - let me have it.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

I thought you just said that didn't work out ??
Actually CNC isn't really just for one off stuff. Its actually used more for multiple copies of the same thing. But you would need to have accurate measurements of what you have. If you don't have that then your stuck doing one panel at a time, etc.

Regarding wood rot, you should explore Ethylene Glycol and the effects it has on wood preservation. I have no idea why it isn't used more extensively.
Its cheap compared to replacing rotten wood work!

Ethylene glycol (auto antifreeze) treated wood safey.

https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/e...rvative.17739/

Are you building a race boat or ?? You have a 50 foot cat, why the worry about super low cabinet weights?

Yes. I’m finishing building an extremely high performance catamaran. Every pound counts.

[Redreuben]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This is something I have never heard of. It’s a new idea to me. So you are saying using a female mold to somehow make cabinetry is the fastest way to do it? I’m trying to understand how that’s possible.

So it’s a box? With movable sides?

You press your laminate down into the box, and that makes the front face of the cabinet?

And then you just cut the back to whatever curve the hull is?

Spray the mold with gel coat, put in your glass, put in your phone, put in your other layer of glass? Do a fillet where appropriate at the 90° angles?

Yep, that’s basically it. You can make rebates for doors and ice box lids by gluing in a blank of the right size and thickness and moulding over it.
You can make blanks from mdf or ply sheet materials and finish them with a few coats of waxed resin, you can even wet and dry them and polish them up if you want that level of finish.
So flush hatches in the top of bunk tops, flush doors, ice box lid etc just make up a blank and screw it in to your female shape, wax or PVA release and then lay up. You can even glass in part bulkheads scribed to hull shape and bond to hull using door openings or hatch covers for access.
Just have to get your head into thinking in the female shape. And remember to use a bit of release angle where appropriate, like the ice box lid plug.
Your welcome.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Redreuben

Yep, that’s basically it. You can make rebates for doors and ice box lids by gluing in a blank of the right size and thickness and moulding over it.
You can make blanks from mdf or ply sheet materials and finish them with a few coats of waxed resin, you can even wet and dry them and polish them up if you want that level of finish.
So flush hatches in the top of bunk tops, flush doors, ice box lid etc just make up a blank and screw it in to your female shape, wax or PVA release and then lay up. You can even glass in part bulkheads scribed to hull shape and bond to hull using door openings or hatch covers for access.
Just have to get your head into thinking in the female shape. And remember to use a bit of release angle where appropriate, like the ice box lid plug.
Your welcome.

What an awesome process!!

Thanks!

Did you used to work at a boat building facility?

I am going to think about this. The goo factor is a lot higher than my current method, but the end product is also a lot nicer.

Also, I’ll try not to laminate my phone in the core as I posted above. Ha ha.

[Redreuben]

Yes, I spent the first third of my working life as a fibreglass laminator. Lots of industrial stuff and later lots of boats, production and custom.
Just a few points, for interior furniture typically you would just make an inside right angle, looking down at it the bottom horizontal panel becomes your bench top and the vertical panel becomes the front.
In production boats the lay up is something like 600 gms csm either side of some 4mm coremat.
A lightweight layup might be 300gms woven either side of light 10mm foam, depending on your panel sizes, or if the component is structural or not.
When installing your blanks it’s often best to just screw them from behind so they can be unscrewed before you release and so fall away with the part and be removed later, saves jamming the part in the mould if you have a blank on both surfaces.
As you can imagine the possibilities are broad, you can build a plug that does both sides and the floor in one piece if you want.
As mentioned you can bond it in to the boat from the inside with strips of glass or you can temporarily glue some 50-75mm strips of melamine to the hull and make a flange to glue it to. It’s my understanding that some manufacturers today just glue it in with methacrylate, in my day that stuff was mega bucks !
I’m sure by now your getting your head around it.
Have fun

[Georgiamarie]

Check with an Aircraft Interior shop, they use a light weight honeycomb aluminum product that comes in sheets. Easy to work with.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Today I found some incompatibility with attaching Formica to foam that puts an end to that technique for building cabinetry. The test piece worked. In real life it doesn’t work as well on large pieces. No matter which of the fast options I use it’s not compatible with foam. When I use the foam compatible polyester, it’s taking too long. The process is too time consuming.

So, I’m looking very hard at switching to wood again.

I had made some mistakes before working with wood and had some unexpected successes too.

Mistakes:

*temporary doors to cabin and everything else made of wood outside on the boat has already rotted away or discolored in the tropical weather. All was coated with many layers of epoxy.
*Used spar varnish polyurethane on some cabin soles. It actually held up fine in lots of areas, but where the water was pouring in from broken windows, it deteriorated.

Surprising successes:

*galley cabinetry was never finished. AT ALL. Made from Lowe’s exterior grade A/B 1/8” ply and Douglas Fir wood. Countertop made from interior ply in 5/8 with counter paint over it. Paint was a failure, but wood held up fine. All wood was a absolutely left open and untreated. No mold, no rot, no problems. No dripping water in there though.

Why did the completely untreated galley wood do better then the epoxied wood??? One was outdoors and one indoors but surely in a boat you’d expect untreated wood to last 15-20mins before complete disintegration. How did my galley wood make it through years of windows leaking and filling bilges up with water, lots and lots of rain and a complete ecosystem on the boat with plants and animals??

So I’m thinking of moving to wood.

Weight is not an issue if you’re willing to build light enough.

I still want unique and interesting faces on cabinetry and countertops and I want it to go up fast. This means Formica (8lbs a sheet). If I combine this with ultra lightweight 1/8” Okoume plywood (also 8lbs a sheet), I can make some nice faces for my “no door” cabinetry. It’ll go up faster because I can use the 20mins to bond, fully hazardous and flammable contact cement which is much nicer to work with than any resin.

I plan to built stick frame cabinetry and furniture. Then face it with Formica outside, painting it inside. Painting is the best way to seal the wood, right?

What fast, 1 step processes or products can I use to seal wood? The sealing mostly needs to be done inside cabinetry and behind things like the shower walls.

Is there a way to seal wood in a shower better that’s a 1 step process? The front would be Formica so the actual shower water and steam doesn’t get on the wood. But behind the walls needs to remain mold free.

Is going to wood a good idea?

Will it go up faster?

I usually use Everdure or Norglass epoxy wood sealer, 2 coats to seal plywood or timber structure, showers I glass to keep out moisture.
Counter tops I'd use formica