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Old 25-10-2020, 10:32   #1
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Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

So as the cold weather sets in, what do you do ? Watch boat rebuilding video on YouTube !

This is a "classic" YouTube DIY repair video. Expedition Evans. Young couple who know very little about sailing and even less about repairing structural damage to a boat. The boat is a 2008 Beneteau 49. The interior is beautiful ! Looks like it was not used much. It had been grounded, HARD, several years before . Someone attempted some "quick repairs". The last owner, sold the boat (I hope cheap), because he knew there were problems that were not properly address.

They have been dismantling the interior and grind all of the gel coat on the hull interior and the matrix for a couple of weeks now. They have found a lot of shoddy repairs, the biggest being that the matrix was never properly re-bonded to the hull, nor was there adequate tabbing. They even found cases of "dry" 'glass mat (insufficient resin).

So this past week the finally got the yard to put the boat in the travel lift sling and raise it up so that they could remove the keel. All of the keel bolts came loose (some were pretty rusty) but this is what happened when the lifted the hull off of the keel.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.JPG
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The cast iron keel was "bonded" to the fiberglass hull ! That hole is almost 2'x3'.

So my questions are, did Beneteau "bond" the keel to the hull at the factory, or was this done by someone else during the previous attempted repair ?

What adhesive is would be that strong to actually rip a large ho9le in the hull ?
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Old 25-10-2020, 11:13   #2
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

And people think production boats are good/more valuable that one offs. Ha ha ha.

They’re built for profit. Every corner is cut if it’s possible to get away with it.
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Old 25-10-2020, 11:14   #3
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldwizard1 View Post
So as the cold weather sets in, what do you do ? Watch boat rebuilding video on YouTube !

This is a "classic" YouTube DIY repair video. Expedition Evans. Young couple who know very little about sailing and even less about repairing structural damage to a boat. The boat is a 2008 Beneteau 49. The interior is beautiful ! Looks like it was not used much. It had been grounded, HARD, several years before . Someone attempted some "quick repairs". The last owner, sold the boat (I hope cheap), because he knew there were problems that were not properly address.

They have been dismantling the interior and grind all of the gel coat on the hull interior and the matrix for a couple of weeks now. They have found a lot of shoddy repairs, the biggest being that the matrix was never properly re-bonded to the hull, nor was there adequate tabbing. They even found cases of "dry" 'glass mat (insufficient resin).

So this past week the finally got the yard to put the boat in the travel lift sling and raise it up so that they could remove the keel. All of the keel bolts came loose (some were pretty rusty) but this is what happened when the lifted the hull off of the keel.

Attachment 225820

The cast iron keel was "bonded" to the fiberglass hull ! That hole is almost 2'x3'.

So my questions are, did Beneteau "bond" the keel to the hull at the factory, or was this done by someone else during the previous attempted repair ?

What adhesive is would be that strong to actually rip a large ho9le in the hull ?
Or... what hull would be that weak to actually rip when supporting the keel weight?

Itís common to bolt and bond a keel simultaneously
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Old 25-10-2020, 12:34   #4
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldwizard1 View Post
...snip

What adhesive is would be that strong to actually rip a large ho9le in the hull ?[/B]
I believe the problem lies in the structural damage happened during the grounding, but anyways the bonding should be cut with a wire to avoid problems IMHO
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Old 25-10-2020, 12:54   #5
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldwizard1 View Post
... Young couple who know very little about sailing and even less about repairing structural damage to a boat. ...
Assuming that you are correct, and they have little knowledge, then their own repairs to the structural damages will likely have a poor outcome.

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Originally Posted by theoldwizard1 View Post
... It had been grounded, HARD, several years before . Someone attempted some "quick repairs". The last owner, sold the boat (I hope cheap), because he knew there were problems that were not properly addressed. ...
What a surprise. In my view, cheap/quick repairs aren't uncommon. Especially so following a bad accident, where the easy option is to cover the damage with some epoxy and paint, with the intent to then sell the boat. That's why prospective buyers should get a survey.

But seriously why even buy a badly damaged boat when,
a/ you've no boat building knowledge, and
b/ you know the boat has serious damage?
I just don't understand the mentality. There are so many perfectly good boats available.
(Unless of course you're expecting to make a fortune from Youtube/Patreon revenue.)
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Old 25-10-2020, 13:35   #6
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

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I believe the problem lies in the structural damage happened during the grounding, but anyways the bonding should be cut with a wire to avoid problems IMHO
They went at it with a reciprocating saw but gave up.

Most of the keel had come off.
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Old 25-10-2020, 14:50   #7
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

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Or... what hull would be that weak to actually rip when supporting the keel weight?

Itís common to bolt and bond a keel simultaneously
Could it be that this is actually shows how well-bonded the keel was to the hull? If you remove all the keel bolts and the hull stays bonded to the keel so well that the fiberglass skin is torn off the hull before the bond between the keel and fiberglass breaks, someone has done some solid bonding.The fiberglass' strength seems to have been compromised by the earlier grounding and fracturing of the interior pan tabbing, but the keel sure seems to have stayed stuck to what it was stuck to.

If they were working on a house, these guys seem like they'd remove a fireplace and be surprised that the chimney fell in on them.
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Old 25-10-2020, 15:13   #8
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

All I can say is, I hope they got it cheap !
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Old 25-10-2020, 16:13   #9
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

wow, hold your horses...

I've done such work in my 20's, on a damaged Dufor that I sold few weeks after completing the repair at 5X the price I paid... (yet, I would never do this again... )

I know the story; these guys are way smarter than what some of us may think, although inexperienced. They studied the situation really well, got all the builder's structural files, consulted with real experts and so far did the right work that most people will never do -
... like the original owner that just gave it to a "pro trade" boat "repairs" person that cheated him all the way by smearing some epoxy and covering the cracks with gelcoat.

This is actually a great promo for 3M 5200...

They will repair the hull and make it way stronger than the original and end up with a good boat for about 50% of the cost plus their work and video story production.

We can all learn something good from them: They have the naÔve passion, spirit and determination to do the im(possible). Their young age and inexperience are in fact their bigger advantages. They are willing to take risks other may never take - and because of that will also gain big time.

Give them your thumbs up!
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Old 25-10-2020, 16:55   #10
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

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This is actually a great promo for 3M 5200...
So that is your guess as to what was used to bond the keel to the hull ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeValency View Post
They will repair the hull and make it way stronger than the original and end up with a good boat for about 50% of the cost plus their work and video story production.

We can all learn something good from them: They have the naÔve passion, spirit and determination to do the im(possible). Their young age and inexperience are in fact their bigger advantages. They are willing to take risks other may never take - and because of that will also gain big time.
I am not doubting that they are capable of "getting the job done", just the facts of this set back. I do hope they are consulting with the factory and marine architect/engineers as to the proper course of action.
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Old 25-10-2020, 19:52   #11
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

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So that is your guess as to what was used to bond the keel to the hull ?
.
Not really, it was only used at the damaged area and they couldnít cut it off before releasing the keel. The bolts were holding the keel but removed in order to drop the keel.

It is actually good the 5200 torn the damaged hull part - will save them some extra grinding. The poor couple had enough of it over the recent weeks.
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Old 25-10-2020, 22:39   #12
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

I thought that this was pretty standard - that 3M 5200 adhesive is used on current Beneteau keel/hull joints. Also, if you watched the show (I’m having trouble NOT watching this insanity - kind of like a train wreck) - you can see that they cut through most of whatever adhesive prior to lifting.

Otherwise - he’d gain at least a tiny appearance of credibility if he’d lose that stupid millennial “man bun”. But I’m just an old opinionated boomer.
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Old 26-10-2020, 00:10   #13
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

Well it certainly looks like a case of the blind (the new owners) following the blind (the yard workers).

No good will come from ripping a 2 x 3 hole in the bottom of the boat. It can of course be repaired, but it in no way makes the job faster or more easily accomplished (though the educational aspect might have some value).

Until they learn to provide some information in their videos, rather that just their pretty faces, their's seems just another utube prostitution channel --- for instance, did it not occur to them that a shot or two of the giant hole they had had ripped into their boat, or the top of the keel itself, might hold a little more interest, at least for some, than their ever-present physiognomies?


As for the original question, I was under the impression that the use of 5200 this case would be centered on the 'sealant' side of its description rather that the 'adhesive' side.

Whilst at first blush it might seem that the added 'strength' of the adhesion of the keel to the hull is a good thing (and it might be, at least at first), I'm pretty sure that the keel bolts are what are supposed to transfer the enormous stresses working on a fin keel into the hull.

Too early to be relevant in this case, but if keel bolts become deteriorated and the keel is mostly 'glued on', (where forces are transfered into the skin and not the structure of the hull), a sudden, catastrophic (likely in high-stress situations such as a storm at sea) failure become much more possible.
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Old 26-10-2020, 02:05   #14
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

I heard they paid 68k for it, and I think sight unseen.
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Old 26-10-2020, 02:26   #15
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Re: Beneteau rebuild turning into a nightmare

That sounds a lot, but on the other hand the interior is nice and if they really can fix the problems they'll end up with a much nicer boat than they would otherwise have afforded. They're doing ok so far and it looks like if they carry on like they are they'll do a good job. But there's a long way to go yet.
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