Sunbrella Fabric quality levels

[Hoodsail]

Don't forget to have window covers made to protect your dodger strataglas...easy on and off while lengthening the life of the window so you can see thru it yrs after installation..i made my own bimini using sunbrella remnants, marine grade, fI cant recall the weight of the sunbrella. bent the tubes for the frame, i believe I used 3/4" stainless steel. Frame came out okay, not professional grade, but protects us from the sun. Made the dodger and then had the pros make one as my DIY did not fit well at all.

[Happydrv]

Interesting comments on the plastic lined version of Sunbrella fabric. Mine shrunk so bad the zippers at the corners were 6" apart at the ends and could never be closed again.
My sail cover shrunk so much the back end is a almost a foot from the end where it started.
I'd stay away from it if I were you.
PS: I will reuse my window covers but am thinking to have them lined with something soft. Anything dirt, grit or salt under them, or just the rough fabric, will rub on the windows and damage them.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

Anyone who really believes the BS that "you get what you pay for" is a fool. That old adage doesn't apply to the real world and it never did...
... Many times the lower price and better workmanship is offered by an honest person.

Perhaps.
But I'd say: "You seldom get what you don't pay for."

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by FabioC

If you truly want to be sure, buy the fabric and thread yourself, and get quotes just for the labor. Sunbrella has distributors all over the country. That way, you can also make sure that you get the exact color you want for both fabric and thread.

The "buy the material yourself" route is not wise.

Ask any good canvas shop, and they will tell you that they can get the materials at less than retail.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Captain Anthony

Ahoy Sailors of the world,
I'm going to have a professional shop replace my dodger and Bimini with sunbrella material. I received 3 estimates, one for around 5 thousand, AND 2 others in the 3 to 4 thousand range. An old salt told me that the reason the 2 lower estimates were given is that they are using the low end sunbrella fabric and thread. So, I looked into it and sure enough, there are different quality sunbrella fabrics and threads. The question is, other than asking the shop, how can a person determine the difference between the better quality fabric and thread and the lesser quality fabric and thread?

I'm a believer in "you get what you pay for" and I'm leaning towards the 5 thousand dollar shop, but how do I tell if the 5 thousand dollar shop is going to use the lower quality fabric and/or thread and is going to just make more of a profit.
What is everyone's opinion/advice?
Aj

Don't be fixated on Sunbrella.

We are currently looking at having our bimini set up for the cooler and wetter times, with a full enclosure. We assumed Sunbrella, but the guy who we decided (from looking at his work and his reputation) was the man for us, advised, that he no longer used Sunbrella.

He said it used to be number one, but then they changed their manufacturing. He asked had we noticed that the coating of our bimini was sticky underneath? Sure had. Exactly he advised. Never used to have that problem, and now it does!

There are other brands out there, and Ferrari Stamoid (there are various weights and finishes) is the one he is happiest with currently. Looking at our (2012 vintage) bimini, the fabric is fine, but that sticky waterproofing that holds dust etc - now we know there is something better, ensures we will not have it on the boat.

[Spindrift NH]

Stamoid is a good choice for a dodger/Bimini as long as you’re talking about stamoid open, there are 2 other lighter weight versions. Also know that each needle penetration will never close up as sunbrella will do. Third, if your fabricator is using large amounts of basting tape you will see it bleed out over time causing dark sticky areas. And finally, color choices are limited with stamoid. If you’re looking for waterproof and durability stamoid is a good choice though.

[arisatx]

Note Seamark only has a 5 yr warranty. Regular Sunbrella 10yr. I’ve been told the trapped moisture lessens life of fabric. Sunbrella honored the warranty on my 9 yr old canvas.

[kgarlick]

I used Sunbrella plus several years ago. The underside got very sticky attracting dirt, mold, mildew. It lost its waterproofness very quickly and the grey after 5 years looks green. I went to the fabric manufacturer when the cover was only two years old and asked if this was the expected behaviour of this fabric. They washed it in a 25% bleach solution and sent it back to me saying it was fine. It still had the mold and mildew stains, the underside was still sticky and was not waterproof. I have now switched to Weathermax 80 in all of my new projects and am very impressed with its qualities. Lighter weight, stronger, more abrasive resistant, waterproof and cheaper!


K Garlick
Cool Cat1

[Dave9111]

Sunbrella was great years ago, but is now technically obsolete.



Other fabrics such as Weathermax 80, which was created for the Military is much superior in every aspect. Since Sunbrella (an acrylic) is technically obsolete, they have sold their soul to keep the money flowing. For instance, Sams Club was selling Sunbrella outdoor furniture cushions. The fabric was lightweight and Sunbrella in brand name only.



I have probably bought 150 yards of Weathermax 80 to sew into equipment covers and I have nothing but praise for the material. I have a cover over a 5 ton dump truck bed right now that has been in use for more than 7 years - 24x7 in the midwest USA. Its an unsupported cover so snow sits on it and slides to the center and then out the back. It has not torn in 60+ mph winds, snow and rain. No wear through at all even though it is on a welded sheet steel dump bed. I use mostly Coats Dabond thread and it is very durable even in direct sun. I use V138 thread so its heavy thread and if it does degrade it will take a long time to actually fail. Looks like its good for about 10 years outdoors 24x7. The PTFE threads are suppose to last forever, but if they charge a lot more for it, I wouldn't buy it. PTFE thread is difficult to sew with. If they use good thread like Dabond, you will likely throw out the cover/bimini before it needs restitching.



The big thing about marine fabric is hand feel and appearance. Weathermax 80 is LOT different than Sunbrella in that respect. If you don't like Weathermax, look at Top Gun and the other Polyesters out there now. All of them are better than Sunbrella. I wouldn't waste my money on Sunbrella any longer. I know some shops won't use it any longer. Its mostly name and its typically over priced for what you get.

[Poche]

People gasp at the cost of any canvas work especially dodgers. It's not so much the cost of materials, it's the labor! People don't like to work for $5 an hour. And if you have a regular shop think of the overhead you have to cover to stay in business.
I do not use Sunbrella anymore. There are products half the price with the same 10 year guarantee.
I use Dabond thread. Yes, you will have to restitch somewhere down the line but I have projects still flying after 10 plus years with it in southern California.
Bottom line is canvas work is labor intensive and does not last forever and is always going to be expensive.
Some things are getting cheaper...electronics. Not canvas.

[SuW]

A couple of things might also affect the amount of material you get quoted for:
If you pick a less popular colour that is only available in, say, 42" widths
If you pick a material that isn't reversible

There is a lot more waste under these circumstances.

As an amateur, I made a dodger with Sunbrella, Tenara and Osea 30. Very good results, but this is the second dodger, I've made. Sunbrella sews easily.

Tenara is not all that great for a home machine - it is quite tricky to get the tension right (double wrap around tension screw) and occasional skipped stitches with the oscillating hook (I pick these up by hand stitching).

Also, I cannot stitch through glue-backed velcro, the hook side of velcro or seamstick. It just results in a rat's nest! I stitch alongside a carefully prepared seamstick line or free hand it, and I switch to polyester for sewing hook side velcro.

I'm told that Profilen is better, but I have Tenara to use up.

[Poche]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

PTFE thread is difficult to sew with. If they use good thread like Dabond, you will likely throw out the cover/bimini before it needs restitching.

I have always used Dabond. I like it a lot but Sailrite assures me that PTFE sews well. I have heard users say the same.
Guess I will buy a small quantity and try it myself. Most likely it's a tension and correct needle thing.

[Poche]

Originally Posted by SuW

y.

Tenara is not all that great for a home machine - it is quite tricky to get the tension right (double wrap around tension screw) and occasional skipped stitches with the oscillating hook (I pick these up by hand stitching).

I think you are correct about choosing the best thread for your machine. For my machine PTFE is recommended rather than Tenara.
Have always used Dabond but will be experimenting with PTFE.

[SuW]

Originally Posted by Poche

I think you are correct about choosing the best thread for your machine. For my machine PTFE is recommended rather than Tenara.
Have always used Dabond but will be experimenting with PTFE.

Yes it also depends on the application. For flat-felled seams on exterior use, I'll top stitch with Tenara. The other line of stitching is not really much exposed to light so you could use polyester.
For interior upholstery, I used Dabond.
For the hook side of velcro, I'll use polyester and make sure that that stitching is protected from UV.
I've also had good success with Tenara on things like Phifertex for fender bags.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by trimarannaga

...Absolutly stay away from cheap sunbrella copies, the fabric may be acrylic like sunbrella but it just doesnt last...…

I personally find dogers and enclosures are the most difficult canvas jobs to manufacture. No 2 are identical. Many curves and shapes and it has to be tight and smooth and, well, perfect. Labor intensive. That really is what you want, perfect, and therefore a high price for a typical dodger.
...

Imitation Sunbrella can Last.

I've been doing my own canvas since I bought this boat, 34 years, including the dodger, now on the third re-canvas (That's 7 years old, I've replaced the windows and re-waterproofed it once).

The first time I used Sunbrella. It lasted about 10 years and then got so tacky looking that I replaced it, but it still worked. That time I used acrylic cloth I bought in China (I was in Hong Kong). One thing: as I re-did the dodger I got better at it (trimarannaga is right, they are tough to do well. Even my third one is sort of rough looking, but it cost me $75 dollars).

I also made some awnings and a main sail cover, all from Chinese acrylic cloth. It's been fine. I used standard Dabond thread which fell apart at about 10 years. The mainsail cover held up well except for chafe from the shade awning.

This year I bought some Mexican acrylic cloth for $21/yd. (Here in Mexico Sunbrella is $37, I don't know if that price is for marine grade or just ordinary Sunbrella, I'm really weak at worrying about which is "best", of anything). This awning takes 20 yards of cloth so the price difference is considerable.

My 15 year old shade awning made from the Chinese cloth had become weak and tore when I strapped it too tight or strong winds blew it, but 15 years of nearly constant tropical sun isn't bad.

So, we'll see if the new shade awning last 15 years or not, maybe I wont' care since I'm 74 years old already.

When the dodger need replacing I will use Mexican acrylic cloth.

Franky, I think the endless discussion about which of anything "is best" is a total waste of time, and cruisers seem to be obsessed with it. The "I gotta have marine grade" is usually a statement made by someone with too much money to spend. That ain't me.