Sunbrella Fabric quality levels

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Poche

People gasp at the cost of any canvas work especially dodgers. It's not so much the cost of materials, it's the labor! People don't like to work for $5 an hour. And if you have a regular shop think of the overhead you have to cover to stay in business.
I do not use Sunbrella anymore. There are products half the price with the same 10 year guarantee.
I use Dabond thread. Yes, you will have to restitch somewhere down the line but I have projects still flying after 10 plus years with it in southern California.
Bottom line is canvas work is labor intensive and does not last forever and is always going to be expensive.
Some things are getting cheaper...electronics. Not canvas.

Very true about the amount of labor it takes to build a perfect dodger and the $3000-$5000 dodgers are beautiful.

But you can make your own! I designed mine, bent the frame, bought the material wholesale, and made my first dodger in about 4 days using my Sailrite sailmaker machine, same I use to make sails. There were some wrinkles. The second time there were less. The materials cost less than $100. My time is free.

[Paparuski]

Originally Posted by FabioC

If you truly want to be sure, buy the fabric and thread yourself, and get quotes just for the labor. Sunbrella has distributors all over the country. That way, you can also make sure that you get the exact color you want for both fabric and thread.

Better yet, make sure the marine fabricator is part of a professional organization , such as Marine Fabricator Assocition (marinecanvas.com) or Chesapeake Marine Canvas Fabricator Assocation (http://cmcfa.org/)

The problem is buying directly is Sunbrella doesn’t sell B2C, and your prices will be higher, and plus a professional fabricator takes into account using their own stock of quality fabric.

Regards

[Paparuski]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

Sunbrella was great years ago, but is now technically obsolete.



Other fabrics such as Weathermax 80, which was created for the Military is much superior in every aspect. Since Sunbrella (an acrylic) is technically obsolete, they have sold their soul to keep the money flowing. For instance, Sams Club was selling Sunbrella outdoor furniture cushions. The fabric was lightweight and Sunbrella in brand name only.



I have probably bought 150 yards of Weathermax 80 to sew into equipment covers and I have nothing but praise for the material. I have a cover over a 5 ton dump truck bed right now that has been in use for more than 7 years - 24x7 in the midwest USA. Its an unsupported cover so snow sits on it and slides to the center and then out the back. It has not torn in 60+ mph winds, snow and rain. No wear through at all even though it is on a welded sheet steel dump bed. I use mostly Coats Dabond thread and it is very durable even in direct sun. I use V138 thread so its heavy thread and if it does degrade it will take a long time to actually fail. Looks like its good for about 10 years outdoors 24x7. The PTFE threads are suppose to last forever, but if they charge a lot more for it, I wouldn't buy it. PTFE thread is difficult to sew with. If they use good thread like Dabond, you will likely throw out the cover/bimini before it needs restitching.



The big thing about marine fabric is hand feel and appearance. Weathermax 80 is LOT different than Sunbrella in that respect. If you don't like Weathermax, look at Top Gun and the other Polyesters out there now. All of them are better than Sunbrella. I wouldn't waste my money on Sunbrella any longer. I know some shops won't use it any longer. Its mostly name and its typically over priced for what you get.

Respectfully, this sounds like the poster works for Safety Components Weathermax. Truth is, Sunbrella (and other makers of high quality outdoor canvas) is made of solution dyed acrylic and Weathermax is made of solution dyed polyester. Please note that Sunbrella company also has a solution dyed polyester called SurLast, so they tell you the pros/cons of acrylic and polyester.

As a textile graduate (NCSU) it is without a doubt that any Solution dyed polyester will not last as long in the UV as any solution dyed acrylic.

Solution dyed polyester normally has higher water resistance than normal solution dyed acrylic .

Regards,

[Tonali99]

I'm tossing this in here because I was there years ago with the 'new' Bimini thing.
Unless you're taking it down often, why use any cloth?
5K is a lot of money every few years.
So, decide just what you want from the Bimini. My supports wobbled all over if you grabbed them. I wanted something much stronger, safer. (needed more headroom too as I'm 2 metres tall)
So I changed everything. Made a new welded frame. Got a sheet of 4.5 mm coated aluminum, (sign dealers have it) use the cloth as a pattern and cut it out.
Added grab handles and installed my solar and antenaes on top.
Still looks good 16 years later.

side bar, replaced all the cable 'safety' lines with SS tube. Used chain to allow easy debarking either side.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Tonali99

clip...

side bar, replaced all the cable 'safety' lines with SS tube. Used chain to allow easy debarking either side.

Entirely off topic, for which I apologize, but I replaced all in that fashion.

Best single upgrade on a boat with hundreds of upgrades, and the most value for money as well. Morgan 461, Sea Dog hardware, and standard 1" tube, my labor (minimal), total one boat buck.

We still have a bimini; the HT (chiefly for a mounting platform for solar) went away when the solar efficiency got good enough that we used the space atop the arch, doubling the prior wattage...

[Tonali99]

I also made a 10" 'U' mounted just forward of the deck hatch. Sometimes when you go forward, ya don't want to be that close to the rail!

[Adiona]

We used Sunbrella Plus, which is the better fabric, costs more. It’s a little more water resistant so the area stays dry. Just some considerations on the Bimini and dodger. Having had them made, and having made them myself, for both sail and power boats, here’s what I would suggest you think about before you sign the contract. Be sure the sides funnel water sufficiently off the sides and toward the back so it doesn’t dump into the cockpit, on the combing or on the winches. Add a little side fabric “gutter” if necessary to accomplish this. The aft coverage needs to be high enough to stand at the wheel and cover your head and hat and not have to duck down to see forward or be uncovered. Consider adding long zippers at the side, for minimal extra cost, inboard and under a 2-3” covering flap. Then if you ever needed or wanted to, you could add a Pfeifertex side for sun control that’s easily made without taking anything down. I made a single Pfifertex side panel with tabs for rolling and tie up, that fits on either side zipper, depending on where the sun is. Since it’s flat this can usually be done by anyone who can see a flat straight seam. Look at the proposed width of the Bimini and dodger from the side, from aft, and from the bow aspect. It should look sleek, not dumpy. If it’s dumpy, maybe lifting the crown in the middle a bit will help. Be sure there is a way to easily and quickly open a flap to get in and out of the cockpit, and you might want this piece to flap up on top with Velcro or a twist to hold it down in the wind and be easily closed in a gale. Snaps didn’t work for me as they generally took 2 hands to use and not a good idea to not have one hand on the boat when boarding in. The rain or with an armful of groceries. The crown or humps of the tubes should be high enough so water is diverted to the sides and to the back, not puddle in the middle, and still look sleek. Color are very important too. Since hardly any boat is “white”, consider a slightly off white or oyster color, less glare. Dark colors will make a hothouse in the cockpit and not refreshing at all. Middle range bright colors have a glare factor less than white. Be sure that when you look at your boat that the Bimini and dodger are complimentary and not the only thing you see, unless that’s what you want. The right color will be complementary and somewhat invisible. When dark colors fade they are pretty distinct, but the white/ off white colors barely show. The tubes. We went a little larger diameter on the side support tubes of our sailboat, so we could hang lines without bending them. These are the angle tubes that go between the top, crowned piece and the back or front upright pieces. On our sailboat it was about a 12” long piece under the dodger and we added this afterwards ourselves, with a short piece of stainless tube and 2 jawslides. I added 1 1/2” piece with same size jawslides on a 1 1/4” tubes. Be sure the both sides of the jawslides is the size you need. None of this stuff should be a surprise to your sailmaker, or drastically increase cost. It would be great if you see one you like on a boat like yours, take pictures, from the bo and stern. Connections to the boat, anything that you could share with the seamstress to say, I want one like this. Sorry for the long post, but it’s easier to define this stuff before than to wish you thought of tha before.