Should a rookie scarf joint a new teak toerail?

[Tatheelrod22]

I'm looking for some guidance. I'm doing some work on a new to me sailboat and I'm replacing numerous "faux wood" pieces with teak that I was able to obtain sized and ready to go. My one challenge is a toe rail that would be 11 ft long except that was to be costly to ship so I have 4 6ft pieces. The width is 3/4' and they are 2.75" high. There is quite a bit of curve, so I've bought the materials needed to build a steam box, which I'll do tomorrow. My concerns are how I steam the two pieces and then scarf them? I've never done either, which might tell you all you need to know and prompt you to answer "don't do this with no experience with such expensive wood especially". If that's the answer I'll accept that wisdom and then start finding someone local to do it, which shouldn't be that hard. The boat is on a trailer so taking it to someone's shop would be easy. I'd rather do it myself. Maybe I obtain some less expensive wood and go through the process with it first? I've been assuming that I shouldn't scarf them into the proper length and them steam them, thinking the joint wouldn't hold up to that, but if I'm wrong then I guess it is scarf, steam, install, which may not be too difficult. But if that's not an option, then I'm stumped.My screw holes are properly pre-drilled, so maybe I just steam one, immediately(temporarily)fasten it from forward to just shy of halfway aft. Then do the same with the other piece going from aft forward as far as I can. If I left them for a few days would they retain the new shape well and long enough to scarf it then and then install? If this matters, I plan to put two coats of West System Clear epoxy on the 6 to 8 varnish coats. Again, if it seems from what I'm saying that I'm getting way out of my league, I'd rather know now that after a bunch of time and ruined teak. The attached picture might help.

I look forward to thoughts and questions.

[jeepbluetj]

Scarf joints aren't hard (depending on what tools you have to cut the angle accurately) - Practice on some cheap wood first and you'll answer your own question.

[Tatheelrod22]

Thanks for the reply, and it prompted this thought in me. If my "cheap wood" attempt works out, maybe I secure it to a surface so I could then clamp my steamed piece to it when it come out of the box and let them "learn its shape" that way.

[model 10]

I would steam each 6' piece, clamp them in place somehow until they cool. Then cut the joint. With 6" to play with you should be able to pull off a good joint after a try or two. If you miss the old holes when drilling the deck you can bog them in. I really would try it first on a piece of 2x4 and buy a good saw.

[jeepbluetj]

Typically (in generic woodworking) you'd bend without the scarf joint glued. You may have it cut out correctly, but not glued until you install.

The steam box will soften most glues - including epoxies.

Your prototype (cheap wood) pieces will flex back a bit if you try using just that as a form for the final teak parts.

[Tatheelrod22]

Thanks!! While I was waiting on the wood I went ahead an properly prepped and filled the old holes in the deck, and they will be hidden by the rail so I'm okay if none of the new holes match up.

[Tatheelrod22]

Thanks. I was envisioning screwing them into a piece of plywood so that wouldn't happen.

[keepondancin]

I don't think you can steam bend Teak. Teak is an oil rich and silica rich wood, and I doubt that the steam will penetrate into the wood fiber and soften them so they bend. Usually teak is "muscled into submission" when it is stood vertical and bent. I think for toe rails, the scarf should will be along the 2.75" dimension, not the 3/4". cut the scarf on the first piece, put that one in place, fit the matching scarf on the second piece, along with a scarf on the other end, fit and secure in place, and continue on.

[UNCIVILIZED]

On a fair number of boats, especially finely crafted ones, in addition to joints being scarfed, they're joined with a "bowtie" piece. Kind of like a biscut joint, but with the bowtie piece being inserted from above. Not hidden in the middle of the joint as is common with biscut joints.

Also, some teak joints get butted, & glued, with or without ties, if the piece is made up of several layers, so that the butt joints don't penetrate the entire piece's full depth.

And I've seen S-shaped joints, much like the way the 2 halves of the Yin & Yang symbol come together.

All of that said, I'd be leary of trying most of the above with teak. Especially for doing such joints the first time. Coupled with the fact that teak is tough to glue at the best of times.
I'd talk to a professional carpenter, in addition to doing a lot of study online. Including looking up the bend radius of various thicknesses of the wood. And then, if things worked out well when practicing on cheap lumber of similar bending properties, I might try it. Otherwise...


PS: Steam is WAY above the heat deflection temp of any epoxies that you'd be using. So it would destroy any glued joint. Not that I've heard of steam bending teak.

[wayne.b]

Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22

Maybe I obtain some less expensive wood and go through the process with it first?

===

That's what I'd do. There are a lot of YouTube videos on toe rail repair.

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+teak+toe+rail

[Dougtiff]

You can absolutely steam bend Teak,1 hour per 1" thickness of the material, overbending helps to retain the desired curve, whether or not to steam bend depends on how tight the bend is.

[buzzstar]

You seem to prep well; once you do it you won be no rookie no more. Good for you!

[Kerry1]

Years ago on my first keeler I was in the same position. I was using teak as belting right down both sides covering the fibreglass deck join, around 28ft each side so had several scarfs to do and quite a curve. Fortunately the boat was in a yard with very experienced and helpful people. After asking advice the first thing they said was to machine the thickness down to a size that would accept the curve without steam bending to avoid the hassle. That was hard to do with expensive teak, but I concurred with some loathing. I cut the scarfs myself and they turned out reasonably well. I drilled all the screw holes and plugged it with offcuts of the teak using a recommended sealer underneath. The one thing that didn't go well, and plagued me was the gluing of the scarfs. At a point near the bow the curve took its greatest toll and I didn't take enough care with where the joins were. Having just made up the total length including scarfs on the ground in a straight line. One of the joins on each side was at a high stress point and the joins failed. Teak is naturally oily and the right glue is critical, ask advice as the technology may have changed since I did this, there may be better products out there. I didn't seek advice on the gluing and solvent preparation and it resulted in a disapointing job. There is great satisfaction in doing these things yourself but there is nothing like learning from experienced people, you also need to know what questions to ask. Good luck with your project.

[Reefmagnet]

I was speaking to a Marine teak importer just the other week regarding this same issue. He said do not steam teak as it strips the oil from it and suggested (in the context of my boat's application) to make the toe rail as a composite piece to set the curvature. The only glue to use is epoxy.

[South Pacific]

From my experience;
Don't steam teak if you can avoid it, and you won't need to with a roe rail of those dimensions anyway.
Scarf before bending. Two reasons for this; cutting a scarf in a bent piece of wood is a PITA, and you will end up with a flat spot at the join which will look silly.
Don't cut the scary out to a feather edge. Teak doesn't glue well and after a few years UV the glue at the ends will let go and you will end up with splinters.
Make a jig and cut the scarfs with a router to get a perfect joint.
Glue with epoxy.

Happy wood working.