Bad Idea ? Replacing Teak Toerail with a Fiberglass One ?

[nv5l]

I've got these huge teak toerails that need to be redone. They leak and there are several large sections that need to be replaced, including split joints at the widest point. Even though I love the teak, this seems to be a perennial problem, and is more akin to a design flaw than a feature.

I'm seriously considering replacing them with fiberglass ones that include built-in chocks, cleats, and over the side drains that completely, and forever, bonds the deck to the hull.

I remember reading about how Hal Roth did something similar to one of his first boats. I may or may not include an ornamental teak bulwark to keep the Luders look, but my main goal is sealing the joint and stopping the leaks once and for all.

Is this a bad idea?

[tager]

Sounds like a good idea. Could end up being a giant project. Aluminum toerail seems more popular, and would probably be a great deal less work, and more pleasant to apply, than glassing something.

[roverhi]

What are you going to use to replace the teak. Haven't seen a fiberglass toe rail advertised anywhere. A lot of people have done away with the toerail and glassed the hull to deck joint. Stops the leaks and makes the joint way strong. Unfortunately it allows things dropped on deck to fall overboard. For me that would mean keeping a diver on standby 24/7. I have seen a neat arrangement where a toe rail is fastened to the life line stanchions. That takes a unigue stanchion with a mounting surface for the, usually, teak board, however.

You may be able to remove the existing toe rail, fix the leaks and remount it with a modern sealant. I wouldn't be surprized if your toerail was mounted with Dolphinite which has probably long since dried up and quit sealing. In my boat, the cap rail is held on by SS machine screws. With the leaks, a lot of these fasteners have broken from crevice corrosion and/or were put in dry with no caulk. If you pull the rail, carefully expoxy it back together where it's cracked, fill all the previous pukas with epoxy, redrill all the fasteners, countersink the new holes, carefully clean the toe rail with acetone, rebed with 5200/Sikkens/LifeCaulk, especially around the fasteners, and use bronze through bolts, you'll probably have a water tight joint. You could go whole hog and glass the hull to deck joint before putting the rub rail back as there is a possiblity the leaks are other than at fasteners though it's not likely.

[pressuredrop]

i am doing something similar on my allied seawind, i am also amidst recoring the decks and then painting everything so all the dirty work is no big deal.

my boat came with 1/5 of the teak rubrail missing from rubbing on a dock in the hurricane, so i removed the rest, reason being i will have zero wood on the outside of my boat for maintenance purposes

glassing over the rubrail is very straight forward once the wood is off, multiple layers of 10oz roven till it looks strong enough, fill all the old bolt holes etc, i am also following that up but glassing the joint on the inside of the boat as well along its entire length with 2 layers of 17oz biax , not looking forward to that part of the job but it is very straightforward and will be very rewarding when done.

the hull to deck joint appears to be different on the luders than the seawind but have no qualms about attacking it

[sded]

Better to replace with a slotted aluminum toerail so you have something useful .

[s/vfootloose]

http://www.geocities.com/fluidmotion2/home_frame.html Check this site out go to new zealand projects He replaced his caprail on a westsail.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by roverhi

A lot of people have done away with the toerail and glassed the hull to deck joint. Stops the leaks and makes the joint way strong. Unfortunately it allows things dropped on deck to fall overboard. For me that would mean keeping a diver on standby 24/7. I have seen a neat arrangement where a toe rail is fastened to the life line stanchions. That takes a unigue stanchion with a mounting surface for the, usually, teak board, however.

That is the best long term solution to the problem and it is also the most seaworthy. Toerails attached to the deck are undesirable because they retain water on deck longer than is necessary. And when you plough into two or three big ones, it's important to get the water overboard as quickly as possible. The scuppers on attached toerails are inadequate to do that job.

The solution is easy. Simply weld small tags to the staunchions to allow the toerail (6" wide eg) to be attached. Leave a gap of, say, 2" between the deck and the toerail to allow the scuppering of water. Problem solved forever.

[nv5l]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I plan to make it myself, in situ, probably using some stiff core material on edge and glassing it to both the hull and onto the deck, essentially keeping the original profile, which looks like a 2/4 edge-ways. The existing bolts will end up encased in glass on top, but still be visible underneath.

Aluminum might be a good choice, but it will still require a bunch of holes in my deck, which is what I'm trying to get rid of.

However, my main concern is whether or not glassing it in will hurt the integrity of the joint, i.e., reduce flex and cause it or something else to fail.

[cfarrar]

I'd check carefully how your toerails are attached. Ours are screwed down as part of the hull-deck assembly.

Colin

[ShipShape]

Originally Posted by nv5l

I'm seriously considering replacing them with fiberglass ones that include built-in chocks, cleats, and over the side drains that completely, and forever, bonds the deck to the hull.

That sounds like a Great idea! I'm going to ditch my badly corroded aluminum toe rails when I pull off my teak decks later this year, and the idea of replacing them with fiberglass with built-in chocks and drains is the best idea I've heard yet. Have you seen this before on another boat? Pictures??

Oh, you wrote more while I was typing. Ok, I can design and build something too.

If you use SS bolts DO NOT glass them in - too much chance for crevice corrosion.

As far as altering the boat's integrity/performance, maybe try a post on BoatDesign.net

[nv5l]

Good point. However, all of the existing bolt heads are either in or underneath the teak toerails, so they probably already have this issue. Should I just pull everything out, says section by section, and reglass the joint as a solid unit without any fasteners?