Seems we bought a Project Boat.

[Rightbrainer]

First, all boats are never-ending projects, so welcome to the asylum.

I strongly urge you to replace all of the standing rigging before raising the sails. You have to assume that it's original and now over 40 years old. Since one lower shroud has already broken, you know that the rest is on borrowed time. I lost a mast when a lower shroud parted at the swaged fitting on a windy, but not stormy day. It made a mess of my whole summer. Every inch of every surface of the chain plates need to be inspected for cracks and crevice corrosion. It should not be too difficult to remove them and have a look.

If you are going to do fiberglass work, check out Boatworks Today on you tube. Lots of good how-to and how-not-to stuff there from a real pro.

I never had a centerboarder this big, but the CB pivot pin sounds like something that you have to really believe in, too, just like the rigging and chainplates, so don't ignore it.

Good luck and tackle your projects in order of importance.

[Lionshooter]

Originally Posted by slfro85

There aren’t plates in the upper corners; the photo with the mirror was from the other side of the same rotted piece (sitting in the V-berth) and I think those bolts in the ceiling above the light fixture are where the chainplates attach.

The bolts on the overhead above the light are not where the shrouds attach. Shrouds have to attach to a chainplate or at least have a large backing plate if they are attached to the deck. Shrouds are not attached to the cabin top. They run to the deck or outside the hull. If you look at the photo below, you will see the chainplate in the upper right corner. It is apx 2" wide, 6" long, and 3/16" thick bolted to the bulkhead, and it sticks up through the deck. On the topside, there are 2, 1/4' holes that the 2 shroud turnbuckles attach to.
I abhor chainplates that run through a hole in the deck as most small boats do (and a lot of larger ones as well). They are always a source of water ingress because they constantly move back and forth ever so slightly.
My guess is that would be the cause of the rot that you have in your boat.

[slfro85]

I’ll take a closer look tomorrow (too short on time today, kids are home from school in 30 minutes) and see what connects where. I had planned to try to remove the rotted wood in one piece to use it as a template, so I will pay extra attention to attachments and connection points.

[Lionshooter]

Originally Posted by slfro85

I’ll take a closer look tomorrow (too short on time today, kids are home from school in 30 minutes) and see what connects where. I had planned to try to remove the rotted wood in one piece to use it as a template, so I will pay extra attention to attachments and connection points.

A template can also, and sometimes necessarily, be made with paper or cardboard and tape before disassembly, especially if the removal involves a reciprocating saw.

[slfro85]

Originally Posted by Lionshooter

A template can also, and sometimes necessarily, be made with paper or cardboard and tape before disassembly, especially if the removal involves a reciprocating saw.

I have a roll of craft paper available for a backup if needed. But I also want to see if I can take the rotted part out of the cabin in one piece without having to take the whole top off. If not, then putting the new one in will be tricky.

[Spot]

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-a-224135.html

Shows a PY23 on CF with (what appears to be) chain plates through deck to bulkhead not through ceiling to bulkhead. Still seems doable...that cutout for the portlights is still quite unique!

[slfro85]

Also pondering the feasibility and practicality of covering the entire new piece in a few layers of fiberglass before installing it. Is that even a realistic way to kind of waterproof the wood so it doesn’t rot again? Or would it even matter if the chainplates are connected through the wood anyway? Would I be better off just coating the cut edges in varnish before tabbing in?

It probably isn’t worth it to try to build the new bulkhead out of fiberglass, is it? that definitely feels like wishful thinking, at least from a DIY perspective.

[Lionshooter]

Originally Posted by slfro85

Also pondering the feasibility and practicality of covering the entire new piece in a few layers of fiberglass before installing it. Is that even a realistic way to kind of waterproof the wood so it doesn’t rot again? Or would it even matter if the chainplates are connected through the wood anyway? Would I be better off just coating the cut edges in varnish before tabbing in?

It probably isn’t worth it to try to build the new bulkhead out of fiberglass, is it? that definitely feels like wishful thinking, at least from a DIY perspective.

It is possible to laminate the whole thing with fiberglass. That's how a lot of rudders and cabin tops are built. However, for your application, it is not practical or feasible. Seal the edges by all means. I would use epoxy for that, not varnish. Epoxy lasts forever; varnish not so much. The best way to keep them from rotting again is to do what the rest of us do. Stop the leaks! Keep those holes in the deck where the chainplates pass through well caulked and check them regularly (at least once a year) during heavy rain or use a garden hose.
If it were my boat, I would eliminate the top half of the bulkheads and attach the shrouds to the deck with a large aluminum backing plate underneath to support the load, which is not a lot on a small boat.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by slfro85

Regarding the bulkhead, I did see a picture somewhere of another PY23 (might be a newer year, but I can’t imagine the design has changed much) where they had taken it (and the toilet) out completely.

Notice that they didn't remove the bulkhead *completely*, they left the parts under the side decks, which is where the chainplates attach (you can see them if you look carefully at the photo). This is the part that is rotted on your port side. I don't know how much of that bulkhead is important for structural integrity of the rig, but the rigging certainly seems to attach to the rotten part of yours.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by slfro85

I have a roll of craft paper available for a backup if needed. But I also want to see if I can take the rotted part out of the cabin in one piece without having to take the whole top off. If not, then putting the new one in will be tricky.

Not necessarily. Unless they could ONLY get it in BEFORE the put the deck onto the hull, or if the compression post is in the way. it could well be that they just slid it in.


Sometimes we encounter "How did they build that?" issues that require careful analysis and study. Sometimes ya get an "Aha!" moment.


Good luck.

[Stu Jackson]

I've noticed that you've said "We don't know anything about boat electrical systems" many times.


None of us was born an electrician.



One way to learn is


BOOKS

Every so often folks ask: "What book should I buy to learn electrical stuff about my boat?"

The appropriate answer is: "Depends on how you like to learn."

Go to a chandlery and read a few in person, and start by buying one that you think suits your "level" and is "readable" to you."

Here's a good start: https://www.bluesea.com/support/refe...trical_Systems

Jan. 2018 - West Marine revised their website, so the following link no longer works. Darn! But a Google or Amazon search for "boat electrical books" will do it for you. Charlie Wing's comes highly recommended by many.

A good starting list is provided by West Marine in the their online Advisors (and usually in their catalogs, one of which should be in your house and the other on your boat).

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...trical-Systems

[slfro85]

Originally Posted by Lionshooter

If it were my boat, I would eliminate the top half of the bulkheads and attach the shrouds to the deck with a large aluminum backing plate underneath to support the load, which is not a lot on a small boat.

This is an option I may consider, since we have to be in there moving and replacing things anyway. How would I go about doing this?

The epoxy primer and fairing compound we ordered is expected to arrive tomorrow, so we expect to start de-rusting the centerboard trunk on Friday. Unless that’s a two-day job, in which case we may wait a week because this Saturday is already booked up and we won’t be home to work on it.

[Stu Jackson]

slf,


Many of us have been trying to help you along.


I think it might be time for a disclaimer. This is about your SAFETY and that of those aboard with you.


We attempt to TEACH by sharing information, tips & tricks and references to sources of reputable information.


We have no clue what you will do with any of it, but we try.


One thing we should remind you of, though, is that all things related to safety are YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. The things that you've mentioned so far, i.e., questionable/non-existent electrical system, missing lower shroud, questionable and aging standing rigging, etc., all have serious consequences if not addressed and completely repaired BEFORE YOU EVER LEAVE THE DOCK.



IIRC, you said you have kids, too, so both adults and children could be in serious danger if you choose to embark without fixing every single one of the problems you've shared with us.


We have all "had our first boats" and know how steep the learning curve can be. And you are writing for both you and your husband, who seems to have a certain desire to overcome daunting odds with little knowledge of boating and sailboats.


We wish you well. But please do some research and homework, or at least continue to do so beyond the input you get from this thread.



You might do a Google search on the phrase "manifestly unsafe voyage" and find out what others have incorrectly done to avoid repeating their mistakes, and reinventing the wheel.


All the best.

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by Lionshooter

If it were my boat, I would eliminate the top half of the bulkheads and attach the shrouds to the deck with a large aluminum backing plate underneath to support the load, which is not a lot on a small boat.

Unless you are an engineer, or otherwise capable of calculating the load rating of the shrouds, and the (likely compromised) structural integrity of the cabintop...
this is ill-advised!

OABTW - - - How much is "not a lot" in pounds per square inch? (or N/m2 if you prefer)

[slfro85]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

slf,


Many of us have been trying to help you along.


I think it might be time for a disclaimer. This is about your SAFETY and that of those aboard with you.


We attempt to TEACH by sharing information, tips & tricks and references to sources of reputable information.


We have no clue what you will do with any of it, but we try.


One thing we should remind you of, though, is that all things related to safety are YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. The things that you've mentioned so far, i.e., questionable/non-existent electrical system, missing lower shroud, questionable and aging standing rigging, etc., all have serious consequences if not addressed and completely repaired BEFORE YOU EVER LEAVE THE DOCK.



IIRC, you said you have kids, too, so both adults and children could be in serious danger if you choose to embark without fixing every single one of the problems you've shared with us.


We have all "had our first boats" and know how steep the learning curve can be. And you are writing for both you and your husband, who seems to have a certain desire to overcome daunting odds with little knowledge of boating and sailboats.


We wish you well. But please do some research and homework, or at least continue to do so beyond the input you get from this thread.



You might do a Google search on the phrase "manifestly unsafe voyage" and find out what others have incorrectly done to avoid repeating their mistakes, and reinventing the wheel.


All the best.

Stu, do you know how patronizing you sound here? Every single thing you felt the need to remind me of, I have already addressed in this thread. If I didn’t care about the responsibility or safety, I would have brushed everything off five pages ago and not bothered coming back to ask about specific things.

I’m gathering information from people who have been doing this longer and looking at multiple sources for corroborating information, including local ones when I can find them. He insists he wants this boat on the water, and I insist that that be done safely. To that end, I’m looking at what other people have done so I know what our options are.

I’m “writing for both of us” because I’m the one who has more time to do the research, and I don’t take that research lightly. I share everything I learn with him, and he looks over it as well and we discuss it. Am I supposed to have him make an account so he can ask all the same questions?

I’ve also said more than once that I intend to make sure these repairs are done correctly, and that the boat will be inspected before it gets on the water. Please do not make assumptions about me or my intentions with this project just because I’m inexperienced and looking for information.