Seems we bought a Project Boat.

[slfro85]

The epoxy primer arrived a day ahead of schedule, but the can was damaged and had leaked all over the box. I had to email the company about a replacement but I don’t expect to hear back till morning. I don’t want to get started on the rust removal until we have that. We might begin with the bulkhead replacement just so we can get something going, and get to the centerboard and trunk next.

[Manateeman]

It is not patronizing when two very experienced members become concerned.
It is a very small vessel for the intended crew. It’s old, and currently has severe structural issues. By your own admission, your boyfriend is strong willed and is clearly going forward no matter the time nor costs.
You might continue to receive advice on the forum but you seem to have turned a deaf ear when the advice is negative. This further reinforces my opinion a substantial element of risk exists in your future sailings.
Perhaps you will now add me to the “patronizing “ list.
Your children are not capable of ascertaining the degree of danger, but I am.
You stated the structural and safety condition of this boat would be inspected but the USCG can not control where and under what conditions you sail. Your dismissive and headstrong replies to experienced posters is not encouraging.
I urge you again to seek the advice of USCG and experienced sailors before setting out. I, for one, will advise you no longer.
Captain Mark who holds a Merchant Mariners Credential.

[slfro85]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

It is not patronizing when two very experienced members become concerned.
It is a very small vessel for the intended crew. It’s old, and currently has severe structural issues. By your own admission, your boyfriend is strong willed and is clearly going forward no matter the time nor costs.
You might continue to receive advice on the forum but you seem to have turned a deaf ear when the advice is negative. This further reinforces my opinion a substantial element of risk exists in your future sailings.
Perhaps you will now add me to the “patronizing “ list.
Your children are not capable of ascertaining the degree of danger, but I am.
You stated the structural and safety condition of this boat would be inspected but the USCG can not control where and under what conditions you sail. Your dismissive and headstrong replies to experienced posters is not encouraging.
I urge you again to seek the advice of USCG and experienced sailors before setting out. I, for one, will advise you no longer.
Captain Mark who holds a Merchant Mariners Credential.

I have said more than once that we will address the concerns that need addressing, and you still repeatedly tell me to have them addressed. That is, actually, patronizing.

You yourself said “anything can be fixed.” I know what (and who) I have work with, and I know it will not be a small or inexpensive endeavor, and I know that it is entirely possible that this boat will still end up in a junk yard if we can’t correct the problems it has. Which is the whole point of the inspection you told me to get, which you *now* say isn’t enough. I already told you - four or five times now - that if a USCG inspection says the boat isn’t safe, it won’t be getting on the water.

If you read the thread, the only advice I have “turned a deaf ear to” is telling me to quit because it’s going to be a lot of work. “A lot of work” is not a reason to quit. Plenty of things take a lot of work. A lot of work could fix it. Maybe it won’t fix it and this boat will never get back on the water, but that’s our problem, not anyone else’s. SEE MY NTH COMMENT ABOUT AN INSPECTION before you mention my family again.

No one is forcing you, or anyone else, to advise me at all. I won’t go to you and ask you for advice either. But you seem to have decided that I’m “dismissive” because I’m not taking your *first* advice to give up altogether, because you think it isn’t worth the time or hassle. Even if you think it’s a waste of time and resources, it’s our time and resources to waste, not yours. I promise I won’t blame you if our efforts prove to not be up to snuff and the inspector says we shouldn’t put it on the water.

[boatman61]

One suggestion regarding the wooden mast post..
If your unsure about its strength measure its length and after removing it get a couple of short lengths of scaffold pole, make up a plate for the top with appropriate holes, weld it to one end of one length and get the other end threaded with a short thread, on the other length make a plate/shoe that fits in the bilge where the old foot fits, weld it on and a long threaded section on the other end.. screw on a scaffold coupler all the way down then fit the top piece in place and bolt it to the outer section nice and tight then seat the lower section in place and unscrew the coupler so it connects solidly with the top length.
Then all you need is a short bulkhead either side to support the side decks and a curtain for privacy.

[slfro85]

Originally Posted by boatman61

One suggestion regarding the wooden mast post..
If your unsure about its strength measure its length and after removing it get a couple of short lengths of scaffold pole, make up a plate for the top with appropriate holes, weld it to one end of one length and get the other end threaded with a short thread, on the other length make a plate/shoe that fits in the bilge where the old foot fits, weld it on and a long threaded section on the other end.. screw on a scaffold coupler all the way down then fit the top piece in place and bolt it to the outer section nice and tight then seat the lower section in place and unscrew the coupler so it connects solidly with the top length.
Then all you need is a short bulkhead either side to support the side decks and a curtain for privacy.

The post doesn’t seem wobbly or weak at all; I sanded off the mold in three swipes and the wood underneath is clean and as hard as the wood at the top that had no water damage. No cracks or splinters. Still, that will absolutely be a point for the inspector to check. I was thinking about replacing it with a metal one if we’re told it needs replacing.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by slfro85

The post doesn’t seem wobbly or weak at all; I sanded off the mold in three swipes and the wood underneath is clean and as hard as the wood at the top that had no water damage. No cracks or splinters. Still, that will absolutely be a point for the inspector to check. I was thinking about replacing it with a metal one if we’re told it needs replacing.

Good Un..
But now you also know a cheap yet strong DIY substitute should you ever need one.. a good paint job or some fancy rope work will have it looking great.

[Lionshooter]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

Unless you are an engineer, or otherwise capable of calculating the load rating of the shrouds, and the (likely compromised) structural integrity of the cabin top...
this is ill-advised!

OABTW - - - How much is "not a lot" in pounds per square inch? (or N/m2 if you prefer)

I understand that you may not have the experience that I have and you may not understand how these boats are built. Are you knowledgeable about the functional ability of large backing plates to support load on a fiberglass encapsulated plywood deck? Keep in mind that the load from 200 sq ft of sail on a pocket cruiser is not a lot when compared to that of an ocean cruiser with 1000 Ft of sail area. Have you never seen a boat that has shrouds attached to backing plates? Look inside Chrysler's sailboats. You won't find chainplates. Look at every other deck-mounted piece of hardware such as the cleats that support the anchor rode that have much more N/m2 than that 110' mainsail can muster even in a 40K blow. And how about the forestay on many 22'-23' boats? There are no chainplates, just a 6"x6" backing plate because the N/m2 is not great enough to cause concern. Contemplate the attachment of the anchor windlass.
Let me reiterate the part where I mentioned the top half of the bulkheads and then look at the photo of the PY23 posted here that has no bulkheads but still has the chainplates attached and you will begin to understand how it can be done without compromising the structural integrity of the boat.
Personally, I don't like chainplates through the deck but I do understand that they are most often a necessary evil that can cause bulkheads to rot if not maintained.

[sandy stone]

I used to own a PY23, and my decks were definitely balsa cored, not plywood. There is no way I would consider supporting the shrouds from the deck instead of the bulkhead, especially considering they are almost certainly compromised by water intrusion. The only safe option is to repair as necessary to the original design.

[Lionshooter]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

I used to own a PY23, and my decks were definitely balsa cored, not plywood. There is no way I would consider supporting the shrouds from the deck instead of the bulkhead, especially considering they are almost certainly compromised by water intrusion. The only safe option is to repair as necessary to the original design.

Balsa core/plywood core, a moot point. Yes, it would work just fine. No, these folks are not going to go to that kind of trouble anyway. As I said at least twice, that is only my personal preference, not a preferred recommendation.

[slfro85]

Originally Posted by Lionshooter

Balsa core/plywood core, a moot point. Yes, it would work just fine. No, these folks are not going to go to that kind of trouble anyway. As I said at least twice, that is only my personal preference, not a preferred recommendation.

Having looked up what it entails to make that conversaion, I think it’s safe to say that you’re right, we’re not going to that kind of trouble. Not for this boat; it’s already a big enough project as it is. Instead I will make very careful notes do the best I can to get the rotted piece out in good enough shape to use it as a template. I’ll make a paper template as a backup first in case I can’t get the bad piece out in one go.

[Lionshooter]

Originally Posted by slfro85

Having looked up what it entails to make that conversaion, I think it’s safe to say that you’re right, we’re not going to that kind of trouble. Not for this boat; it’s already a big enough project as it is. Instead I will make very careful notes do the best I can to get the rotted piece out in good enough shape to use it as a template. I’ll make a paper template as a backup first in case I can’t get the bad piece out in one go.

You have one major obstacle. Those bulkheads are set in place prior to the deck being put on. Notice that there is a moulded grove top and bottom to hold the bulkhead in place to prevent any fore/aft movement as well as the built-in settees. I have had to replace bulkheads for clients with the same configuration and in most cases, it is impossible to insert a new piece into that space without first removing the mast compression post or making the bulkhead in two pieces, upper and lower, and bonding the two pieces together after insertion. It's a big, time-consuming job, which is why I originally advocated for partial bulkheads which still allow the chainplates to be attached and provides privacy for the head.

[slfro85]

Originally Posted by slfro85

Having looked up what it entails to make that conversaion, I think it’s safe to say that you’re right, we’re not going to that kind of trouble. Not for this boat; it’s already a big enough project as it is. Instead I will make very careful notes do the best I can to get the rotted piece out in good enough shape to use it as a template. I’ll make a paper template as a backup first in case I can’t get the bad piece out in one go.

Originally Posted by Lionshooter

You have one major obstacle. Those bulkheads are set in place prior to the deck being put on. Notice that there is a moulded grove top and bottom to hold the bulkhead in place to prevent any fore/aft movement as well as the built-in settees. I have had to replace bulkheads for clients with the same configuration and in most cases, it is impossible to insert a new piece into that space without first removing the mast compression post or making the bulkhead in two pieces, upper and lower, and bonding the two pieces together after insertion. It's a big, time-consuming job, which is why I originally advocated for partial bulkheads which still allow the chainplates to be attached and provides privacy for the head.

I was worried about that. I found a YouTube of people whose boat had a similar setup - a wider port side bulkhead with a similar groove at the top; they were able to slide a bad bulkhead out without having to remove the compression post or take the top off, but the video only shows them removing the starboard side of the bulkhead, which was smaller. They didn’t have a follow up video with the port side bulkhead. At this point all we can do is try it and see what works.

Since the most important part is the side near the hull where the chainplates attach, and the bulkheads don’t provide support for the mast, we should still be able to assemble the new bulkhead in pieces, correct? Would we then attach/seal the cut edges together with epoxy?

[Lionshooter]

Originally Posted by slfro85

Since the most important part is the side near the hull where the chainplates attach, and the bulkheads don’t provide support for the mast, we should still be able to assemble the new bulkhead in pieces, correct? Would we then attach/seal the cut edges together with epoxy?

If you plan to build a full-sized bulkhead instead of just the lower half, then you will have to cut it in half and rejoin the two in place. Cut the top piece 1/8" shy so you can inject epoxy into the joint with a syringe and then put a backer block over the joint. There are a lot of videos on how to join two pieces of ply.

[slfro85]

Originally Posted by Lionshooter

If you plan to build a full-sized bulkhead instead of just the lower half, then you will have to cut it in half and rejoin the two in place. Cut the top piece 1/8" shy so you can inject epoxy into the joint with a syringe and then put a backer block over the joint. There are a lot of videos on how to join two pieces of ply.

We want to keep the sliding door mechanism and he likes having the separate rooms, so I think a full bulkhead is still the plan. I will look up videos and get a list of materials together.

[Lionshooter]

Originally Posted by slfro85

We want to keep the sliding door mechanism and he likes having the separate rooms, so I think a full bulkhead is still the plan. I will look up videos and get a list of materials together.

That makes perfect sense. I didn't realize that it had a door.
Good luck. Let me know if you have questions or problems.