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Old 10-05-2021, 16:12   #1
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Seems we bought a Project Boat.

We bought a 1979 PY23 sailboat a couple weekends ago. She’s been sitting neglected for a while and needs lot of TLC. It’s nearly all cosmetic, thankfully, but as we’ve been cleaning up, we have run across the following issues:

1. adhesive on the fiberglass from the foam wallpaper stuff we took down - will Goo Gone or something similar remove this, or will we have to sand it?
2. rotted plywood interior wall that will need replacing - we can cut a new piece, but how do I attach the new piece to the fiberglass? It looks like the original piece was attached with fiberglass cast strips.
3. missing icebox - there’s a cabinet that opens from the front, but the icebox/fridge is no longer there.
4. Missing stove - what do we need to replace this? It’s a small boat and we don’t plan to do more than weekend cruising on it; boyfriend is thinking about a grill outside the cabin.
5. Missing some of the rigging wire - what do I look for to replace it?
6. Needs bottom paint sandblasted off (will hire someone to do this) but we plan to dry-sail and trailer the boat home after every use; is it critical to replace the bottom paint if we opt to give it a good scrub when we get home?
7. Teak parts on the top need help - they’re badly weathered. Better to sand/varnish or just replace?
8. Battery needs replacing so the interior electric works. We have a solar panel but it’s small and we don’t know how to connect it. Can we convert the whole thing to solar, and how do we do that?
9. Water tank is rotted through - where do we replace this?


There may or may not be more issues crop up as we continue working on this boat.
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Old 10-05-2021, 16:56   #2
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.


1. Sanding is faster, wear gogles/mask and use a sander with a vacuum hook-up

2. The plywood wall under the mast going from port to starboard is really important. It needs to be strong and 'tabbed' (connected with fiberglass and resin) to the hull.

3. Get a cooler for now

4. Personal preference, I prefer Origo 1500 but they are no longer made for marine use.

5. this is concerning along with #2. Suggest replacing w/new all at once.

6. I trailer mine, no bottom paint whatsoever.

7. Better minds than mine should answer, I keep woodwork at a minimum.

8. This requires a basic understanding of DC circuits and boat wiring and solar power in general to carry out. It will be hard to tell you in a sentence or two what to do.

9. There is a company that makes those, I forget the name.


If you can, get some of the books by Don Casey and Nigel Calder about boat systems. Some of this may be worth have a surveyor or boat repair person coach you on if you are not sure. There are YouTube videos for many things but you might be at a " don't know what you don't know " stage so it may be hard to judge if something is right for you or not. Also see if there is a owners' group for that boat online.

I have a thread called 'Interior Refit 1970's kit boat' that shows what I have done. I am just getting to the point of being ready to rewire and address cosmetic issues. I had a hobbyist background in composites and some experience with RV's and DC circuits before starting this project.

PS- Congrats on the boat, I hope you can enjoy the renovation and be sailing soon!
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Old 10-05-2021, 18:22   #3
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

First, congratulations and good luck wth your boat!


Spot has given you some good advice. To add to his suggestions


2 epoxy with a thickener works well to tab something to the hull. Sawdust can be used as a thickener, or there are low and high density fillers sold at marine shops that are really nice and easy to sand smooth afterwards. West Marine has a lot of literature online about using west systems epoxies.


4. A grill in the cockpit is fine. I used a butane camp stove (always in the cockpit, never the cabin) for a couple years until I got a marine grill.


5. You definitely need to replace the missing rigging, and I agree replacing it all would be a good idea. If you can get what you have left removed, label it very well so you know what goes where, i.e. "Forestay", "Right Shroud", etc, coil it up, and take it to a marine shop as well. You can likely get replacements made from the originals (if you have "half" the rigging (they can match left to right side or vice versa.)
You can also try to find an owners forum online for your boat. There's a good chance someone either has standing rigging specs or can direct you in the right path.


7. You can try sanding the teak. If it's just the finish that's rough, remove it all and re-varnish. If the wood is weathered a little this will also work. If it's badly weathered you may want to replace it. Teak is really good at resisting the elements, but it could be badly checked (cracked) and that would be very hard or impossible to sand out. If you don't like what you are left with after sanding, you can make the decision to replace it then.
I sanded and revarnished my cabin top handrails on my 25' boat over the space of a week, with less than an hour to sand and only about 20 minutes per coat (5) to apply the varnish.


8. You'll need a battery even if you have solar. Re-wiring isn't the easiest thing to do if you have no experience at all. I suggest at the least getting a copy of a book on marine electrics and seeing how well you can follow it before you try to do much on your own. Here's an example of a $20 book on replacing boat electrics.

9. Moeller makes water tanks in hundreds of sizes. Moellermarine.com
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Old 10-05-2021, 19:30   #4
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

1. That is probably a rubber based glue, so try WD-40 first.
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Old 10-05-2021, 19:41   #5
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

We’re only missing one cable. We found it today, coiled up in one of the cockpit storage areas, but it’s damaged (rusted and starting to unwind) and we don’t want to use it. The rest all look to be in good shape. Trouble is, none of them are labeled so I don’t know which is what, or which one is missing. My guess is one of the back stays, but until we can get the mast up I won’t be able to tell for sure. The boat is currently parked under a tree and getting the mast upright won’t be possible until we can get it somewhere more open.
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Old 10-05-2021, 20:04   #6
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

This site may be useful figuring out what lengths of rigging go where:
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/py-23-paceship.
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Old 11-05-2021, 03:08   #7
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

From pictures of PY23's it looks like a forestay, a lower and upper shroud on each side, and a back stay.

This pic is from sailingtexas.com, the other line drawing was from sailboatdata.com same as mentioned by psk125 above.

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Old 11-05-2021, 04:00   #8
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
From pictures of PY23's it looks like a forestay, a lower and upper shroud on each side, and a back stay.

This pic is from sailingtexas.com, the other line drawing was from sailboatdata.com same as mentioned by psk125 above.

Thanks for that photo, it was very helpful. One of the lower shrouds, then. All the others are still on the mast so we know where to run the one we’re missing.

Also, is that a trolling motor on that boat? We had been led to believe we need at least a 6hp outboard. The guy we bought the sailboat from and the guy we bought the dinghy from both suggested a 9.9.
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Old 11-05-2021, 04:15   #9
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

What great news! Congratulations on your new boat, slfro85!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
The plywood wall under the mast going from port to starboard is really important. It needs to be strong and 'tabbed' (connected using fiberglass and resin) to the hull.
Spot is absolutely correct. This is called a bulkhead; it supports the deck. If you're going to replace it, the new piece will need to be the same size, thickness and sturdiness - fitted exactly and tabbed in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
This is concerning along with #2. Suggest replacing with new all at once.
All of the items you've listed communicate to us that, as you say, the boat was ignored for a while.

Sorry for stating the obvious, but the two things on a boat that are crucial are that
(1) the hull is sound (so the boat won't sink) and (2) the mast will stay up and be supported to properly absorb the loads and stresses of wind in the sails (that way, you will always have propulsion by being able to catch the wind). Therefore it is crucial that the mast will stay up. I heartily second that all the standing rigging (well, ALL of the wires for now) should be replaced at the same time. Just because you have some of them doesn't mean those should be used. Give yourself some peace of mind and replace all the wires in one go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
If you can, get some of the books by Don Casey and Nigel Calder about boat systems.
Here's a link to an inexpensive copy of Don Casey's Good Old Boat:
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...lResults-_-BDP

Here's a link to Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems
https://m.alibris.com/Boatowners-Mec...818?matches=16

These are probably the two that Spot meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
I have a thread called 'Interior Refit 1970's kit boat' that shows what I have done.
Spot is modest. Here's the link to his amazing thread (can you tell I'm an avid follower?)
Pay special attention his recent forays into making new interior cushions himself! (Go to last couple of pages of the thread)
Interior Refit 1970s Kit Sailboat Questions
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ns-236747.html

If the hull and mast are sound, you can at least go sailing this Summer and worry about the other cosmetic stuff later. I hear that those (fantastic) Origo 1500 (non-pressurized alcohol) stoves come up on EBay every so often, so keep a lookout. There's also Captain Jim's Marine Salvage in Portland, Maine who occasionally comes across stuff like this. Here's the link to his website: https://marinesalvagemaine.com/

Fair winds and good luck!
We're all happy for you,
LittleWing77
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Old 11-05-2021, 04:16   #10
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

Congrats on the boat, small project boats are a great way of learning and if you do it right, you'll be able to sell her for more than you paid except your sweat equity is free. Get the book "This Old Boat" from Don Casey, great all around resource for those learning the ropes.

The old teak cap rails and trim could be sanded and cleaned, faired with Bondo/fairing compound to fill in the cracks and holes, sanded smooth and painted with a topside paint with a color that is complimentary. Forget the varnish. This method is great for those on a budget too.
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Old 11-05-2021, 06:21   #11
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortuga's Lie View Post
Congrats on the boat, small project boats are a great way of learning and if you do it right, you'll be able to sell her for more than you paid except your sweat equity is free. Get the book "This Old Boat" from Don Casey, great all around resource for those learning the ropes.

The old teak cap rails and trim could be sanded and cleaned, faired with Bondo/fairing compound to fill in the cracks and holes, sanded smooth and painted with a topside paint with a color that is complimentary. Forget the varnish. This method is great for those on a budget too.
I donít think we plan to sell this boat. Heís already very attached to it and wants to pass it down to our girls when/if we graduate to a bigger one.

The wood parts need some sanding, but they donít appear to be cracked or structurally damaged, so maybe a good paint will do.
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Old 11-05-2021, 06:30   #12
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

The most important item to look at is the pin holding the centerboard into the boat. An owners group might have more information . You do not want to loose the keel.
All the previous posts are great. The four most important items are the centerboard pin, the rudder attachments, the main bulkhead and the standing rigging.
Happy trails to you.
Mark and crew.
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Old 11-05-2021, 06:30   #13
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleWing77 View Post
What great news! Congratulations on your new boat, slfro85!!!



Spot is absolutely correct. This is called a bulkhead; it supports the deck. If you're going to replace it, the new piece will need to be the same size, thickness and sturdiness - fitted exactly and tabbed in.



All of the items you've listed communicate to us that, as you say, the boat was ignored for a while.

Sorry for stating the obvious, but the two things on a boat that are crucial are that
(1) the hull is sound (so the boat won't sink) and (2) the mast will stay up and be supported to properly absorb the loads and stresses of wind in the sails (that way, you will always have propulsion by being able to catch the wind). Therefore it is crucial that the mast will stay up. I heartily second that all the standing rigging (well, ALL of the wires for now) should be replaced at the same time. Just because you have some of them doesn't mean those should be used. Give yourself some peace of mind and replace all the wires in one go.


Here's a link to an inexpensive copy of Don Casey's Good Old Boat:
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...lResults-_-BDP

Here's a link to Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems
https://m.alibris.com/Boatowners-Mec...818?matches=16

These are probably the two that Spot meant.



Spot is modest. Here's the link to his amazing thread (can you tell I'm an avid follower?)
Pay special attention his recent forays into making new interior cushions himself! (Go to last couple of pages of the thread)
Interior Refit 1970s Kit Sailboat Questions
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ns-236747.html

If the hull and mast are sound, you can at least go sailing this Summer and worry about the other cosmetic stuff later. I hear that those (fantastic) Origo 1500 (non-pressurized alcohol) stoves come up on EBay every so often, so keep a lookout. There's also Captain Jim's Marine Salvage in Portland, Maine who occasionally comes across stuff like this. Here's the link to his website: https://marinesalvagemaine.com/

Fair winds and good luck!
We're all happy for you,
LittleWing77
It sat on a trailer for at least a year, and in the water for a while before that. There are no holes or soft spots in the hull, but I’m honestly kind of annoyed at not knowing about the rotten bulkhead before we bought it. The guy we bought it from did not have it properly cleaned out and so we didn’t thoroughly inspect it. We should have insisted that we empty everything out and look at it all first, but we had three of the four kids with us at the time and Boyfriend was doing nearly all the talking. I assumed he would have asked the relevant questions and given it a thorough look over. Had I known the bulkhead was that bad off and the piece of rigging wire was missing/damaged, I would have suggested that we move on to something in better shape. Cleaning and redoing cosmetics was expected. Replacing structural parts right off the bat, not so much.

But now she’s ours, and I am determined to fix her up. Never done a boat before, but I’m a quick study and have a good amount of DIY experience.
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Old 11-05-2021, 09:24   #14
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

Congratulations on your new sailboat!!

Let me take a stab at your questions:

1. adhesive on the fiberglass from the foam wallpaper stuff we took down - will Goo Gone or something similar remove this, or will we have to sand it? Goo Gone or another adhesive removers work
2. rotted plywood interior wall that will need replacing - we can cut a new piece, but how do I attach the new piece to the fiberglass? use any number of adhesives, do an internet search on "attaching plywood to fiberglass"
3. missing icebox - there’s a cabinet that opens from the front, but the icebox/fridge is no longer there. Buy a small portable ice box
4. Missing stove - what do we need to replace this? Buy a portable butane stove for ~$25 at a camping store or on-line
5. Missing some of the rigging wire - what do I look for to replace it? Please be more specific
6. Needs bottom paint sandblasted off (will hire someone to do this) but we plan to dry-sail and trailer the boat home after every use; is it critical to replace the bottom paint if we opt to give it a good scrub when we get home? If you pull your boat out of the water every time you use it, you don’t need bottom paint, just clean it and if your remove paint and barrier coat to fiberglass then wax it.
7. Teak parts on the top need help - they’re badly weathered. Better to sand/varnish or just replace? Depends, if not damaged sand and allow it to weather to a gray color or periodically treat with teak oil or natural cetol; varnish is a lot of work.
8. Battery needs replacing so the interior electric works. We have a solar panel but it’s small and we don’t know how to connect it. Can we convert the whole thing to solar, and how do we do that? You can convert to solar, but you will need a battery and you might need more solar panels.
9. Water tank is rotted through - where do we replace this? [B]Replace it with a plastic tank in the same location.
10. There may be more issues as they crop up as we continue working on this boat. Bring them on, do not be afraid to ask for help.
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Old 11-05-2021, 09:44   #15
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Re: Seems we bought a Project Boat.

1. Try washing it first with TSP (Home Depot) . Next move from weaker to stronger solvents (Goo Gone-> Alcohol->Acetone - Adhesive remover). You may need a plastic scraper as well.

2. Use MARINE plywood (Okume of Hydrotek). Lumberyards carry this (NOT Home Depot or Lowes) . Don't waste your time with "exterior plywood".

3. I use a 12v cooler. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


4. Missing stove - Propane camping stove (1 lb gas cannisters) or butane https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PVIYZ1G...d_asin_0_title


7. Teak outside the boat is always badly weathered. Quick fix is to clean with Teak products and then teak oil.
Newest " thing" is to sand then seal with resin and finalize with coats of varnish.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Brite-Pr...g-goods&sr=1-4


8. You will still need a battery (batteries) as solar alone will not work (lights at night?)

Need deep cycle batter(ies) preferable AGM. (Absorbent Gas Mat)

The solar will charge the batteries especially when it is home on the trailer (if not you would need to run an electric cord to a charger on the boat, or bring the batteries in the house to charge..)

You will need a "controller" to manage the solar panels and their charging of the batteries.

Tons of them on Amazon..

( Ex: "Renogy Wanderer 10 Amp 12V/24V PWM Negative Ground Solar Charge Controller Regulator Compatible with Bluetooth Module..."

9. RONCO supplies the tanks for many boats. You can call them. They sell direct.

They may have made the tank for hits boat. If not with the dimensions they can suggest one that will fit.
www.https://ronco-plastics.com
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