replacing joker valve the hard way

[Dave22q]

Thanks for all the replies. Two lessons learned. One, when outlet seam opened and the poo is oozing out DO NOT try to accelerate the process by pushing the pump. Very messy. Two , when an overhead light is knocked down make sure you recover ALL of the batteries. Joker valve cannot digest one. Raritan makes a good product did not even need to replace joker, just remove battery and wash real good.

[Kalinowski]

Hydrochloric acid is what we use (forgot to mention what acid in my earlier post). You can buy it cheaply by the gallon at Home Depot.

[JPA Cate]

Having read this far, I've only one comment to make: there is something else that will make the head unpumpable: cherry pits. Small children are the usual culprits. We've met people who will not allow their small children the delights of fresh ripe cherries, for this very reason.

Another thing that makes heads umpumpable: small fish get sucked up, and stop the plunger, poor little guys.

Ann

[David B]

Originally Posted by SVRocinante

The operative word in thinwater's comment is "SHOULD", so be careful with this particular assumption. On our Hanse 400e, the hose feeds into the bottom of the tank. Yep, I don't know why, but that's the way it came, brand new, straight from Hanse.

Are you sure there is not a standpipe in the tank that goes from that bottom fitting, to the top of the tank? (so the pumped liquid enters the tank via the bottom fitting, but must then travel up the internal standpipe before it can overflow near the top of the tank, and run into the tank proper).

Otherwise, I would be changing it. When the joker valve starts to leak (and it will be 'when'), you have the potential for a full holding tank to run back through the toilet and over the top of the bowl. I would not want to rely on people remembering to close the valve after flushing.

[SVRocinante]

Originally Posted by David B

Are you sure there is not a standpipe in the tank that goes from that bottom fitting, to the top of the tank?

No, I have no idea what might be inside the tank, but what you suggest makes a whole lot of sense!

Thanks David, will sleep a bit better at night now!

[David B]

Originally Posted by SVRocinante

No, I have no idea what might be inside the tank, but what you suggest makes a whole lot of sense!

Thanks David, will sleep a bit better at night now!

Your boat handbook might show a diagram. Otherwise if your tank is translucent plastic, not opaque - get a small torch behind the tank. When empty, you may be able to see if there is a pipe there, but I would be surprised if not.

[SVRocinante]

Originally Posted by David B

Your boat handbook might show a diagram. Otherwise if your tank is translucent plastic, not opaque - get a small torch behind the tank. When empty, you may be able to see if there is a pipe there, but I would be surprised if not.

Nope, the tank is stainless steel, so no dice... but I'm comfortable that your assessment/assumption is correct; it's really the only thing that makes sense!

[David B]

Originally Posted by SVRocinante

Nope, the tank is stainless steel, so no dice... but I'm comfortable that your assessment/assumption is correct; it's really the only thing that makes sense!

OK, glad I made sleeping easier

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Wanderlust

Worked for me a few weeks ago - cleared in seconds. I believe the joker valve distorts enough under suction to allow the blockage to start moving. Then the reversing pressure completes the job.

The OP has a PHII. It has a flapper which yours does not. The flapper is not going to distort.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

Thanks for all the replies. Two lessons learned. One, when outlet seam opened and the poo is oozing out DO NOT try to accelerate the process by pushing the pump. Very messy. Two , when an overhead light is knocked down make sure you recover ALL of the batteries. Joker valve cannot digest one. Raritan makes a good product did not even need to replace joker, just remove battery and wash real good.

That's good news, but did the battery still work ?

[cyan]

After fixing a similar (horrible) problem, then glaring all day at the landlubber guest who used too much paper, the nagging question hit me:

Can someone please tell me WHY the standard marine sanitation hoses are all 1-1/2" in diameter??!

My only answer so far is a bit blasphemous: boat designers are simply bad at math. The minimum toilet connection in a house bathroom in my neighborhood (by code) is 3". My guess is that some bonehead back in the day thought that HALF of the residential code of 3" might be a good (size & weight saving) idea for a boat: 1-1/2 in. HALF sounds about right, right? Well, Mr. Bonehead didn't do math well, because he actually chose ONE FOURTH of the residential minimum by choosing half of the inside diameter.

The cross-sectional area of a 3" ID pipe is (3/2)^2 * PI = 7.06 sq in.
The cross-sectional area of a 1.5" ID hose is (1.5/2)^2 * PI = 1.77 sq in
The ratio of sizes: residential/marine is 7.06/1.77 = 4.
Marine sanitation hoses are 4 TIMES SMALLER THAN RESIDENTIAL PIPES!

This is ridiculous! Why do we do this to ourselves?
To save water?
To reduce weight?
To limit waste paper/objects via comedy?
To enjoy a nice joker valve repair?
To separate landlubbers from old salts?

Hell the replacement joker valve I found has a spec of 0.8" cross section. That is almost NINE TIMES SMALLER than the minimum residential code.
WTF?

On the repair, I also used the fancy no-smell 1-1/2" hose ($9/foot). BTW, the same fancy material comes in 4" hose for $17/foot. Has anyone gone larger than 1-1/2" hoses with adapters?

Unlike some here, I really do like to have landlubbers aboard. I don't need to accommodate tampons but a few sheets of TP shouldn't ruin a sunset cruise!

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by cyan

Can someone please tell me WHY the standard marine sanitation hoses are all 1-1/2" in diameter??!
<snip>
Hell the replacement joker valve I found has a spec of 0.8" cross section. That is almost NINE TIMES SMALLER than the minimum residential code.
WTF?
<snip>
a few sheets of TP shouldn't ruin a sunset cruise!

First, it's kinda difficult to route 4" hose. Second, 4" hose is expensive. Third, 4" hose uses all kinds of space that has better use on a boat.
Residential plumbing needs to be bigger since there isn't a mercerator or pump involved that can make sure everything is nicely reduced in size and fits through a 1.5" hose. Also, in general, residential plumbing must be more suitable for low IQ operators.
Last but not least, if you used the appropriate toilet paper I seriously doubt that you would be able to plug a toilet even if you tried. I use loads of paper and have never had an issue. I can not understand why anyone would suggest to use a maximum of 4 sheets or even worse, put the used toilet paper in a separate bag instead of flushing it.
Of course all bets are off if you try to fush tampons, batteries or cherry pits (see the low IQ comment above)

[seahag]

Originally Posted by cyan

After fixing a similar (horrible) problem, then glaring all day at the landlubber guest who used too much paper, the nagging question hit me:

Can someone please tell me WHY the standard marine sanitation hoses are all 1-1/2" in diameter??!

My only answer so far is a bit blasphemous: boat designers are simply bad at math. The minimum toilet connection in a house bathroom in my neighborhood (by code) is 3". My guess is that some bonehead back in the day thought that HALF of the residential code of 3" might be a good (size & weight saving) idea for a boat: 1-1/2 in. HALF sounds about right, right? Well, Mr. Bonehead didn't do math well, because he actually chose ONE FOURTH of the residential minimum by choosing half of the inside diameter.

The cross-sectional area of a 3" ID pipe is (3/2)^2 * PI = 7.06 sq in.
The cross-sectional area of a 1.5" ID hose is (1.5/2)^2 * PI = 1.77 sq in
The ratio of sizes: residential/marine is 7.06/1.77 = 4.
Marine sanitation hoses are 4 TIMES SMALLER THAN RESIDENTIAL PIPES!

This is ridiculous! Why do we do this to ourselves?
To save water?
To reduce weight?
To limit waste paper/objects via comedy?
To enjoy a nice joker valve repair?
To separate landlubbers from old salts?

Hell the replacement joker valve I found has a spec of 0.8" cross section. That is almost NINE TIMES SMALLER than the minimum residential code.
WTF?

On the repair, I also used the fancy no-smell 1-1/2" hose ($9/foot). BTW, the same fancy material comes in 4" hose for $17/foot. Has anyone gone larger than 1-1/2" hoses with adapters?

Unlike some here, I really do like to have landlubbers aboard. I don't need to accommodate tampons but a few sheets of TP shouldn't ruin a sunset cruise!

Agree for sure- 1 1/2" is too small! Asking for trouble on a regular basis.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by cyan

Can someone please tell me WHY the standard marine sanitation hoses are all 1-1/2" in diameter??!

You make a very persuasive point. I actually pondered this for a few moments.

All I came up with is this: home plumbing uses gravity alone to "help" the waste along. Marine systems use brute force.

Along the same lines (pondering more now) home systems use a lot more water to whisk away the waste. Boats have limited holding tank capacity.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

You make a very persuasive point. I actually pondered this for a few moments.

All I came up with is this: home plumbing uses gravity alone to "help" the waste along. Marine systems use brute force.

Along the same lines (pondering more now) home systems use a lot more water to whisk away the waste. Boats have limited holding tank capacity.

I see your point about the brute force. A big concern is the joker valve I found with only 0.8 sq in area. I'm no proctologist, but this sounds like sending each poo through a small opening twice. It turns out that different brands of joker valves have vastly different cross sectional valve openings for the same size valve! Had I found a real Jabsco valve, the area would have been 1.3 sq in. (oops)

The sad truth is that the inside clearance area for hoses could have been doubled simply by choosing 2" hoses instead of 1-1/2" hoses.
Those tiny hoses are a real head-scratcher to me.