Removing winch from mast

[Jerry Woodward]

I have two Harken 16 winches on either side of the mast. One is siezed and I am trying to rebuild it. I took the top off and cleaned the outer gears, bearings and pawls, but there are additional gears and pawls that I cannot get to unless I remove the winch from the mast.

Well....I don't think it has been removed since the boat was built in 1997. The six large SS bolts will not budge, yes, I've tried PB Blaster, Corrosion X and impact drivers.

The only thing I can think of from here is to drill out the screws, grind them flat, then re-drill and tap new holes. I've not had much luck drilling stainless, is there a specific bit I need to use?

[tkeithlu]

If you have to drill out, an ordinary bit will do, with oil of course. Stainless steel does not live up to its reputation for being superior metal. Compared to some hardened bolts it's out and out gummy. That may mean that you will shear the bolts somewhere in this process.

But, try three more approaches first. Try alternating tightening and loosening with the impact driver. Anything to get it to move. Second, try heat within the limits of the surrounding metals. It will be lots of heat, given the dissipation of heat in the surrounding metals. Not just a propane torch, more like an oxy-acetylene torch with a rosebud tip. Third, and final, rig a breaker bar and turn the heads. That will either loosen them or shear them, and you really don't need the heads or the winch in the way when you drill out. Use a six point, not a twelve point socket when you do that.

[gonesail]

when you say impact driver .. is it the one you hit with a hammer? those work the best for me unless the screw head is already stripped.

[davil]

[QUOTE=Jerry Woodward;3577054]

Well....I don't think it has been removed since the boat was built in 1997. The six large SS bolts will not budge, yes, I've tried PB Blaster, Corrosion X and impact drivers.
====================================

had same problem
impact driver was useless.
friend has an impact power drill, much like those used to remove tires on the shop.
Amazing how easy was.
If the heads have not been stripped, and you can borrow or perhaps rent?

[skipmac]

Based on a recommendation by Mainesail I purchased a set of Norseman bits. not cheap but they are my go to when drilling stainless. Beats any other bit I've used for this.

In case you don't already know, the secret to drilling stainless or any metal is slow speed and heavy pressure on the bit. Some cutting fluid doesn't hurt.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

But, try three more approaches first. Try alternating tightening and loosening with the impact driver. Anything to get it to move. Second, try heat within the limits of the surrounding metals. It will be lots of heat, given the dissipation of heat in the surrounding metals. Not just a propane torch, more like an oxy-acetylene torch with a rosebud tip. Third, and final, rig a breaker bar and turn the heads. That will either loosen them or shear them, and you really don't need the heads or the winch in the way when you drill out. Use a six point, not a twelve point socket when you do that.

It is counter intuitive but trying to tighten the bolt often loosens it so it will back out.

[George DuBose]

I saw Dan on Sailing Uma use an electric Makita impact wrench or driver and he was able to remove the spinnaker pole track on his mast. In my case, I used a carbide drill to drill off the heads of the mounting machine screws. Then I sanded the rest of the screws flat to the surface of the mounting pad.

Once I had the surface of the aluminum winch pad flat, I drilled five new mounting holes and inserted stainless steel helix coils into the holes I drilled in the pad and then used new machine screws to mount the new winch.

This is the least destructive method.

Use carbide drills, center a small 1/16" hole in the top of the screw and then use a bit and tap to make the new holes the size for the helix coils.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Jerry Woodward

I have two Harken 16 winches on either side of the mast. One is siezed and I am trying to rebuild it. I took the top off and cleaned the outer gears, bearings and pawls, but there are additional gears and pawls that I cannot get to unless I remove the winch from the mast.

I'm not familiar with the Harken 16 but have had many boats with many winches over the years and I've never had to remove the whole thing from the mast to service it. Seems like a bad design OR you might be missing something simple, such as-

- Did you disassemble everything you could? The outer bearings and gears might need to be removed to access the ones in the base area.

- Are you sure there's no access slot? At the base there is usually a raised slot where you remove the inner gears after removing everything on top of it. PIA to reassemble.

- I see online a mount for this winch that allows removing it by pulling it up off the mount. Worth a try.

- Perhaps you could post a question and mention "Harken 16" in the subject line to reach CF users familiar with that winch.

Good luck!

[sazarac]

Originally Posted by Jerry Woodward

I have two Harken 16 winches on either side of the mast. One is siezed and I am trying to rebuild it. I took the top off and cleaned the outer gears, bearings and pawls, but there are additional gears and pawls that I cannot get to unless I remove the winch from the mast.

Well....I don't think it has been removed since the boat was built in 1997. The six large SS bolts will not budge, yes, I've tried PB Blaster, Corrosion X and impact drivers.

The only thing I can think of from here is to drill out the screws, grind them flat, then re-drill and tap new holes. I've not had much luck drilling stainless, is there a specific bit I need to use?

Did you look at the drawings available by Google search?

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Jerry Woodward

I have two Harken 16 winches on either side of the mast. One is siezed and I am trying to rebuild it. I took the top off and cleaned the outer gears, bearings and pawls, but there are additional gears and pawls that I cannot get to unless I remove the winch from the mast.

Well....I don't think it has been removed since the boat was built in 1997. The six large SS bolts will not budge, yes, I've tried PB Blaster, Corrosion X and impact drivers.

The only thing I can think of from here is to drill out the screws, grind them flat, then re-drill and tap new holes. I've not had much luck drilling stainless, is there a specific bit I need to use?

Archimedes said "If you give me a lever and a place to stand, I can move the world". Just be careful to get out of the way if the boat flips end over end.

Get back to us on how it worked.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Wrstein]

One more possible chemical approach: a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid (ATF) and acetone is claimed by many in the automotive world to be the best bolt-unsticker, better than the commercial goops. In any event it’s cheap and easy to try, with no harm done if it doesn’t work.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Wrstein

One more possible chemical approach: a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid (ATF) and acetone is claimed by many in the automotive world to be the best bolt-unsticker, better than the commercial goops. In any event it’s cheap and easy to try, with no harm done if it doesn’t work.

Yes, that is the "Go to" chemical mix among the crowd that restores 100-year-old machinery that's corroded/rusted.

[more]

i don't understand what bolt. but i know SS bolt aluminum parts on the outboard, jetski engne. heat and unscrew with simply battery impact wrench.
we have couple different like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFh8Pci5gpc

[Cheechako]

I doubt they will come out via any method. They are often flat head bolts which you really cant grip well. If they are hex head you can at least break them off with a socket.

I've done what you suggest; drill out the head, cut off, grind flush and rotate the winch base to tap new holes. Unfortunately this leaves the SS in there to continue to corrode the aluminum.

Once flush you can drill again to remove the bolt entirely if you are into that.
Use a lot of lanolin on the new bolts.

[Wrstein]

I like that induction heat tool, but I’d be pretty sure the OP is dealing with countersunk machine screws securing the winch base to the mast, i.e. nothing to wrap those coils around. Since I don’t know anything about the induction heat tool, maybe that isn’t a problem; maybe you can just touch the coils to the head of the machine screw. But even if you can, I’m not sure that’s any better than a torch.

Silly question: since the aluminum mast has a much higher coefficient of expansion than does the stainless machine screw, might it make sense to heat the area of the mast around the holes, rather than trying to heat the fastener? I realize the aluminum mast is very heat conductive and it might be challenging to do, but maybe heating the mast area and simultaneously hitting the fastener with Freeze-Off or a similar spray product might work to create the greatest differential.