LPG locker fabrication?

[Steely Dancer]

Hi all, we ended up buying a 1968 Cheoy Lee Offshore 40 yawl. We got her cheap, too: no engine, no toilet in the head, no upholstery to speak of, teak decks and sails and windlass and running rigging in need of much TLC, and the electrical system needs to be completely redone.

But she did come with a really nice ForceTen two-burner stove.

The problem is, there is no propane locker on the boat and no obvious place to install one.

As of right now the most attractive option, logistically, is the least attractive, visually: a fitting that allows the tank to sit on the deck (probably aft of the traveler but not too close to the rub rails) and vent directly overboard.

Other options were to build a locker directly into one of the lazarettes, but this raised a number of alarms when we took ABYC standards into account, including access, ventilation, clearance above the waterline, and so on, as well as the need to effectively either remove access to large parts of lazarettes or cut new hatches into our deck, in an attempt to make a custom locker ABYC compliant.

What do you think is the best solution?

If you have any leads on good places to source parts for this boat, please throw those in too!

[BillKny]

Do not consider the ABYC standards for propane as regulatory hoops to jump through. For propane installations, they are deadly serious. Follow the standards and you will have a very safe installation. Don't cut corners.

If you want help from people not intimately familiar with your specific boat, photos and descriptions of the details of the issues will help...

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Steely Dancer

Hi all, we ended up buying a 1968 Cheoy Lee Offshore 40 yawl. We got her cheap, too: no engine, no toilet in the head, no upholstery to speak of, teak decks and sails and windlass and running rigging in need of much TLC, and the electrical system needs to be completely redone.

But she did come with a really nice ForceTen two-burner stove.

The problem is, there is no propane locker on the boat and no obvious place to install one.

As of right now the most attractive option, logistically, is the least attractive, visually: a fitting that allows the tank to sit on the deck (probably aft of the traveler but not too close to the rub rails) and vent directly overboard.

Other options were to build a locker directly into one of the lazarettes, but this raised a number of alarms when we took ABYC standards into account, including access, ventilation, clearance above the waterline, and so on, as well as the need to effectively either remove access to large parts of lazarettes or cut new hatches into our deck, in an attempt to make a custom locker ABYC compliant.

What do you think is the best solution?

If you have any leads on good places to source parts for this boat, please throw those in too!

The ABYC standards are actually pretty simple. Do you have a copy of the standards ?

[Steely Dancer]

Originally Posted by BillKny

Do not consider the ABYC standards for propane as regulatory hoops to jump through. For propane installations, they are deadly serious. Follow the standards and you will have a very safe installation. Don't cut corners.

If you want help from people not intimately familiar with your specific boat, photos and descriptions of the details of the issues will help...

Thanks! Yes, we are taking these standards very seriously, as they exist for very good reasons. But they do pose interesting problems for us when trying to design the installation of LPG fuel service.

I don't have photos hosted externally so I can't link to them, but I can describe the lazarette situation:

The livable interior of the boat effectively extends back only a few feet aft of below the bridge deck. From that point to the stern, the boat has three lazarettes: one on either the port or starboard side of the cockpit, and one aft of the cockpit, separated from the forward compartments by a bulkhead that spans athwartships and supports the traveler and mizzen mast. The waterline meets the shear of the stern at a point about midway under the cockpit. As our boat currently has no engine, we expect this to change slightly in the future.

Here are some photos of the same (or similar) boat that others have posted:
(aft deck)
(cockpit area)
(side view)

Previous proposed ideas included building an LPG locker into one of the lazarettes, but that would involve a great deal of glassing without the certainty of vapor tightness, cutting a new through-hull to vent spills (with a questionable amount of clearance above the waterline), and without modifying the deck rather extremely, effectively rendering the remainder of that lazarette useless. So we've circled reluctantly back to an on-deck solution. I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

[Steely Dancer]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

The ABYC standards are actually pretty simple. Do you have a copy of the standards ?

They're easy to look up, but I can summarize them here:

-the locker must be vapor-tight, save for a downward-directional vent through which any stray fumes must be vented overboard and, above all, not into the bilge (LPG fumes are heavier than air and behave somewhat like water, pulled downward by gravity)
-the locker should not be built inside a lazarette; it should open directly to the outside
-both the locker itself and the LPG tanks within it must be secured so that they do not move about, shake, rattle, etc.
-inclusive of a solenoid and fume detector, in addition to the regulator; most people hook up the solenoid switch in the galley, so that it can be activated only for cooking
-the LPG fuel lines must be as free of connections and bends as possible

It is those first two items that are making the installation difficult below the deck level. (See previous responses.)

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Steely Dancer

-the locker should not be built inside a lazarette; it should open directly to the outside

- Split the laz locker hatch so one side only opens to the propane.
- Making it vapourtight with FRP is very simple.
- Height of the drain over board may be an issue but I doubt it.

PS. I'm ABYC Certified and have all the standards. If you don't have an ABYC locker I doubt very much if the stove and supply lines were installed to ABYC either.

I wrote a litle guide on the issue.
Safe Boat Propane System Installation

[Steely Dancer]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

- Split the laz locker hatch so one side only opens to the propane.
- Making it vapourtight with FRP is very simple.
- Height of the drain over board may be an issue but I doubt it.

PS. I'm ABYC Certified and have all the standards. If you don't have an ABYC locker I doubt very much if the stove and supply lines were installed to ABYC either.

I wrote a litle guide on the issue.
Safe Boat Propane System Installation

Thanks!

Splitting the locker hatch was a consideration, but would require re-engineering of the gasketing system that directs water back into the cockpit sole. Lots of work!

Didn't know that FRP vaportightness is such a sure thing. That's great!

Height of drain clearance is a major concern, and I'd also rather not drill a new through-hull.

Existing lines are a disaster. We're going to pull them and redo. I'll check out your guide!

[Benz]

While I designed a gorgeous propane lazarette, I eventually wound up having my in-use tank on deck, covered with a Sunbrella sock. It's back where it's not in anything's way, and easy to see the gas level and change when empty.

[pcmm]

Like you my boat came with a propane stove but no proper propane locker. The PO just drilled a hole through the deck and ran copper tubing to the stove (a gimbaled stove too) Proper ABYC propane system isn't really that hard to setup. Just need a solenoid (with sniffer), a regulator with gauge, a length of proper propane hose, no joints inside the boat either except for at the appliance! I don't really like the idea of a propane locker built into a lazarette or other cockpit locker. I want my tanks fully outside the boat! so I built my propane locker as a deck locker. with a water tight gland where the hose and control power enter the boat. The propane hoes goes all the way to the stove inside a PVC conduit to protect it from anything in the boat (has to go through the engine room)

https://www.nevermonday.ca/2020/05/p...er-part-1.html
https://www.nevermonday.ca/2020/07/p...er-part-2.html

whatever you do, DO NOT assemble it European style. Some of what they allow as "safe" just makes me shake my head! multiple connection allowed and necessitated by the manual shutoff valve, which for some reason always seems to be installed either BEHIND or directly below the stove. The last place you want it in a fire!

[deblen]

Some pics: https://www.google.com/search?q=mari...40-dRKgUp91wwM

[deblen]

My 28 ft uses the anchor locker for a 20lb LPG tank,regulator,guage & solenoid.The boat came with a collision bulkhead as rear wall of the A locker,so locker is totally isolated from boat interior.
There are two 1/2" SS thru hulls out thru the sides of the bow for drains.
Of course,I can't legally store my anchor rode in the locker.
Perhaps your A locker is large enough to install a second bulkhead to separate LPG from rode.
Cheers/Len

[deblen]

LPG locker drain Thruhulls:
Anchor Locker Drains.jpg Views: 33 Size: 404.1 KB ID: 246575" style="margin: 2px" />

[deblen]

[Benz]

Originally Posted by deblen

My 28 ft uses the anchor locker for a 20lb LPG tank,regulator,guage & solenoid.The boat came with a collision bulkhead as rear wall of the A locker,so locker is totally isolated from boat interior.
There are two 1/2" SS thru hulls out thru the sides of the bow for drains.
Of course,I can't legally store my anchor rode in the locker.
Perhaps your A locker is large enough to install a second bulkhead to separate LPG from rode.
Cheers/Len

When you say "legally," you must mean "according to ABYC's ideas."
AFIK there's no statute regulating propane storage on uninspected vessels.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by Benz

When you say "legally," you must mean "according to ABYC's ideas."
AFIK there's no statute regulating propane storage on uninspected vessels.

Yes-I should have said ABYC standards. My insurance co. will not cover my boat if it does not meet ABYC. My boat is required to be surveyed to ABYC standards every 5 yrs. in order to renew insurance & the report goes to the insurance co.

When the surveyor asks me what "that" locker is for I say "propane".
AFIK,all Canadian recreational vessels require a survey in order to obtain insurance,but I may be wrong.
Cheers/Len