Help needed, what am I looking at?

[Standbly]

I'm an experienced metal boat owner. Polyester boats are new to me. There is one for sale that I'm interested in. I love the shape and the price.


That said, the conditions and circumstances of the sale are somewhat difficult. It's as-is-where-is and haul out is not possible. Absolutely not.
I've not bought the boat yet but I did a bottom scraping and a very close inspection. There is only one thing that I can see that is worrying me. The pictures of the worries are attached to this thread.



Could anyone take a good guess what I am looking at? The "imperfections" are all over the hull but only 3inch up from the waterline and there seems to be more of them on the side of the boat that's in the shade almost whole day. The boat has been in the water for at least 3 years.


Thanks!

[boatsrus]

If you drill into 1 of the blisters and a liquid comes out that smells of acetone then it is osmosis. It would be unusual to get this above the waterline though.

The blisters look small but a lot of them - I would get a surveyor to have a look.

[ronstory]

Do you have a moisture meter? It odd to see that many small blisters, especially above the water line.

As boatsrus said, a surveyor would be a good idea... all of the good ones have a moisture meter.

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Standbly,

If you really want to find out, the guys above have the right idea.

On the other hand, I can tell you the same thing your intuition is telling you, which is that yes, something is wrong there. My guess is that the shady side is undergoing the same process, but slower, because it's somewhat cooler, as the other side. Fiberglass isn't supposed to look like that. Gelcoat is smooth. Pop a blister, smell it. Weird smell indicates osmosis problem: in which case, walking away is indicated.

The long story is a little more complicated, but the short advice is adequate.

Ann

[Fore and Aft]

I remember surveying a cruising yacht that had sailed a lot of miles and she had osmosis about above the waterline. The owner seemed to think that was from long periods of sailing on one tack. The boat was covered in osmosis below the waterline as well.

When we used to repair osmosis we would always go a 100mm above the waterline with our epoxy barrier coats then hide them with a boot toping stripe.

Cheers

[coopec43]

QUOTE That said, the conditions and circumstances of the sale are somewhat difficult. It's as-is-where-is and haul out is not possible. Absolutely not. UNQUOTE


I'd say the boat has been put in that position for a reason. Don't be a bunny! (I smell a rat)

HER HULL CONDITION

http://mike-menzies-marine.co.nz/osmosis-blistering/

[boatpoker]

Ok ...... Caveat ... it is very difficult to be positive from photos however,

Option 1. They look like "gelcoat" blisters and I've surveyed hundreds of boats with this condition of very small (/16" to 1/8") blisters. The blisters are almost always cosmetic and rarely breach the laminate.

Option 2. I have a small suspicion that the topsides are painted. If that is the case I suspect the moisture is in the paint. Again a cosmetic condition.

You may want to take a look at these articles on my website.

Moisture Meter Mythology

Osmosis Testing ????

[Standbly]

Thanks very much for your answers, it helps!

The "blisters" are very very smal, size of the top of a pin. They're hard and solid, not pressable and to small to drill. I can't even puncture them with a needle. As you can see in the second picture, some of the "blisters" are/have become miniature craters. I'm 90% certain that it's not painted, original gelcoat because it's very "chalked". Could be wrong about it though.

@coopec43. I am a suspicious guy so I fully understand what you are saying. Thank you for your concern. It's not a boat that is advertised anywhere. I liked the shape of it and tracked down the owner to ask if it's for sale. Boat had been in that spot for 3 years untouched. So no scam.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Ok ...... Caveat ... it is very difficult to be positive from photos however,

Option 1. They look like "gelcoat" blisters and I've surveyed hundreds of boats with this condition of very small (/16" to 1/8") blisters. The blisters are almost always cosmetic and rarely breach the laminate.

Option 2. I have a small suspicion that the topsides are painted. If that is the case I suspect the moisture is in the paint. Again a cosmetic condition.

You may want to take a look at these articles on my website.

Moisture Meter Mythology

Osmosis Testing ????

I'm going w/option 2. Hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like someone tried to use Brightside (or similar) w/o proper prep.

Also read the links Boatpoker has posted/written. They are good/straight forward and recommends a non pinned moisture meter (w/caveats) that won't break the bank.


Bill O.

[AlanR]

If the boat has not been out of the water for three years, I would expect a lot of weed below the waterline, even an inch or so above it. How did it get so clean?

I smell a rat.

If you can get to,the boat in a dinghy, eun your hand along the hull, just under the water-line, feeling the surface of the hull for blisters, typocally up to an inch in diameter and an eigth high. That will be osmosis.

Mainly a cosmetic problem, but curing it requires professional attention, to scrape all the gelcoat off, up to 10 imches above the waterline, then a few months to properly dry the boat out (lews if it is in a reduced humidity with warm air blown on it), then a gelcoat replacement, and probably a paint job.

Make sure the price reflects the cost of doing all this.

[CarinaPDX]

While the OP's later description does sound like a paint problem, it is quite possible that the paint was needed to cover up blister repairs. It is also quite possible that there are, or were, blisters on the bottom. FWIW blisters on the topside do happen, and they can be quite large. A couple of years ago an old Valiant 40 was for sale here that had many large (larger than quarters) blisters well up the topsides. And note that the early Valiant 40's had severe blistering which resulted in a class action lawsuit with a payout ($10k IIRC) to the owners (later boats were built with different materials and do not suffer the problem). I have a few topside blisters on Carina, just above the waterline, and did a peel, hot vac, epoxy/glass treatment to the hull below the waterline for blisters.

Blisters don't sink boats, at least not normally, but they tend to recur unless they are properly treated. Proper treatment costs a substantial number of cruising bucks.

Blisters are not the only bad things that can happen below the waterline. I would simply not consider buying a boat without an underwater survey at a minimum, haulout preferred. There are lots of used boats to choose from...

Greg

[Rorzech]

[QUOTE=Standbly;2849009]I'm an experienced metal boat owner. Polyester boats are new to me. There is one for sale that I'm interested in. I love the shape and the price.


That said, the conditions and circumstances of the sale are somewhat difficult. It's as-is-where-is and haul out is not possible. Absolutely not.
I've not bought the boat yet but I did a bottom scraping and a very close inspection. There is only one thing that I can see that is worrying me. The pictures of the worries are attached to this thread.



Could anyone take a good guess what I am looking at? The "imperfections" are all over the hull but only 3inch up from the waterline and there seems to be more of them on the side of the boat that's in the shade almost whole day. The boat has been in the water for at least 3 years.

It appears that this boat has been attacked by polyester mites. Just check on the inside to confirm whether or not they have bored right through or not. I there's no water in the bilge and the inside waterline is not seeping then you're good to go and wouldn't worry about it until your next haul out .

[Standbly]

@AlanR: I spent a complete day in the water scraping it. The bottem is clean now. I've not seen or felt blisters but then again the water is not very clear. Just clear enough to see where to scrape the 1 - 2 inch thick growth of it. Very dirty job.

[Standbly]

Thanks for all your replies and thank you, boatpoker, for your website. I think I'm going for it. I will let you know what happens.