Has anyone sunk from deck delamination?

[Creedence]

Originally Posted by MikeFL

Taking an integrated systems perspective of a boat with weak delaminated decks, it would certainly be possible that a running rigging anchor point, perhaps poorly backed to begin with, is ripped right out of a rotten deck leading to a catastrophic loss of the entire rig. Sort of like dominoes. Was the boat lost because of a rig failure or the rotten deck? I think Toss suggested to "follow the load".

Yeah, that certainly seems to stand to reason. Based on the real-world accounts offered here,, it does seem to be localized failures that represent the greatest risk. They then open you up to second and third order effects.

[MicHughV]

I went to look at a boat that had been hauled out at Indian Town...it was a Taiwanese built boat, teak decks, etc, etc....a Vagabond 42....
I don't know how long the boat had been there, but it was seriously waterlogged...walking around on the deck was like walking on a sponge....broke my heart to see it such shape...
when we pulled up, broker was inside with a gas powered pump, trying to pump all the water out of the boat...it was a hopeless mess.....owner was nowhere to be seen...
neglect can kill any boat...many boats like that at Indian Town....it's like a burial ground fro neglected boats....Green Cove Springs another place...
The boat was sinking...on land !!!

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Creedence

Fair point. So accepting that sinking from a failed, delaminated deck is a rarity, it might be interesting to try this:

Has anyone here experienced significant deck failure (i.e. winch or windlass cracking up out of the deck) due to delaminated decks?

I have not experienced such a major deck failure but it is common on older, heavily loaded race boats. A common warning is never to stand in the bight of a jib sheet on a maxi boat. Not so much on the light weight boats oddly enough.

I have had fittings rip out, (a pad eye holding a mainsheet turning block, for example).

I have also, over the years had several places on my deck where the balsa core has gotten wet and soft. Usually small areas. You notice them when the deck seems soft and you start tapping to see the extent. Sometimes bigger than I knew until I got into the repair. Even though the problems from a soft spot on the deck are not always serious, I don't believe in leaving them unfixed. it is too easy to repair them. I always put them on the list and repair them eventually, hopefully sooner rather than later. Other than a fitting I have never had a failure. I've also never had a safety item, such as a stanchion base get wobbly. If that occurred the repair would be very high priority.

This photo shows a deck repair in progress. Due to the unavailability of balsa I used a solid soft wood cut into blocks, as you can see. I guess eventually my whole deck will be rebuilt.



The link here shows the whole repair in photos. <Wingssail Images-Cruising Photos from Around the Pacific>

[captlloyd]

Odds and logic. I like to think of myself as an odds and logic type of person. I know people who are fearful of crossing bridges in an automobile. And they smoke. Concentrate on what is most likely to actually get you. I’m not saying you should not maintain or repair your boat, I’m just saying there are many more issues that are much more relevant to losing your boat, starting with seamanship. I think of the old adage “ a boat will take a lot more than it’s crew”.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Odds and logic. I like to think of myself as an odds and logic type of person. I know people who are fearful of crossing bridges in an automobile. And they smoke. Concentrate on what is most likely to actually get you. I’m not saying you should not maintain or repair your boat, I’m just saying there are many more issues that are much more relevant to losing your boat, starting with seamanship. I think of the old adage “ a boat will take a lot more than it’s crew”.

Fear of losing the boat is not why I repair the soft spots which have occurred in my deck. Looking at the place and what is bolted there, or supported by that piece of weak deck one can quickly assess the risk. That is odds and logic.

On the other hand, neglecting one soft spot, because it does not matter, then another, and another and so on, soon you have a big backlog of maintenance which needs to be done. Of course if the boat is an asset then you are letting the asset depreciate faster than it needs to, to say nothing of the lack of pride in a well maintained boat.

So by that logic, I try to stay on top of needed repairs, including superficial soft spots in the deck even though the odds that it will cause a loss of the boat are rather low.

[Creedence]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Fear of losing the boat is not why I repair the soft spots which have occurred in my deck. Looking at the place and what is bolted there, or supported by that piece of weak deck one can quickly assess the risk. That is odds and logic.

On the other hand, neglecting one soft spot, because it does not matter, then another, and another and so on, soon you have a big backlog of maintenance which needs to be done. Of course if the boat is an asset then you are letting the asset depreciate faster than it needs to, to say nothing of the lack of pride in a well maintained boat.

So by that logic, I try to stay on top of needed repairs, including superficial soft spots in the deck even though the odds that it will cause a loss of the boat are rather low.

Wingsail, if you wouldn’t mind, could you post a picture of the final repair? That’s some serious work being done right there; I’d love to see the finished product. I definitely applaud you in your willingness to dive in and tackle the big stuff!!

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Creedence

Wingsail, if you wouldn’t mind, could you post a picture of the final repair? That’s some serious work being done right there; I’d love to see the finished product. I definitely applaud you in your willingness to dive in and tackle the big stuff!!

Yes, I can. This link has several photos of the job in progress and the final repair. Let me know if you can't view them.

https://wingssail-images.blogspot.com/2018/09/

By the way, the first time I did something like this was in Vanuatu at Mele Island, anchored, in a monsoon rain which lasted for days. I needed to replace about 40% of the cockpit floor and I was able to do it under a good rain awning.

[Creedence]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Yes, I can. This link has several photos of the job in progress and the final repair. Let me know if you can't view them.

https://wingssail-images.blogspot.com/2018/09/

By the way, the first time I did something like this was in Vanuatu at Mele Island, anchored, in a monsoon rain which lasted for days. I needed to replace about 40% of the cockpit floor and I was able to do it under a good rain awning.

Wow, that’s superlative work!!! VERY nicely done!

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Yes, I can. This link has several photos of the job in progress and the final repair. Let me know if you can't view them.

https://wingssail-images.blogspot.com/2018/09/

I notice you replaced the rotten balsa with wood but why not Divinycell. Klegecell or Airex?

I am also puzzled by people replacing rotten balsa with balsa.

[Manateeman]

When a naval architect designs a boat a lot of thinking goes into how forces interact. Ever notice how the wings of a passenger jet move up and down.
Have you ever seen any commercial plane with wings stitched like a patchwork quilt. Patchwork boat deck repairs maybe necessary to get you from some remote location to a boat yard. This is not boat building. Why fair and sand and paint it. The deck needs major surgery. A deck isn’t a random collection of sticks and epoxy. Ken , Barbie and a cat sailing into the sunset...it’s a nice story.
Bad boats get people in bad spots where they ask others to risk their life to save them. Bad boats get sold to unsuspecting good people. Some bad boats were just cheaply made. Some are bad repairs painted up fancy trying to pass off as being properly done. Well the boats not sinking so it’s all good? Whatever.
Roll credits.
Happy trails to you kimosabi.
Captain Mark and manatees

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

When a naval architect designs a boat a lot of thinking goes into how forces interact. Ever notice how the wings of a passenger jet move up and down.
Have you ever seen any commercial plane with wings stitched like a patchwork quilt. Patchwork boat deck repairs maybe necessary to get you from some remote location to a boat yard. This is not boat building. Why fair and sand and paint it.
Happy trails to you kimosabi.
Captain Mark and manatees

You most certainly wouldn't want an aluminum yacht to flex like an aircraft wing

[Creedence]

My poor little thread can’t seem to get out of debate mode.

Any other stories about major failures out there?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by coopec43

I notice you replaced the rotten balsa with wood but why not Divinycell. Klegecell or Airex?

I am also puzzled by people replacing rotten balsa with balsa.

Once you leave the realm of places where "anything" is purchasable you take what you can find locally.

I have not seen Divinycell, Klegecell or Airex, or even Balsa anywhere here in Mexico. In fact I haven't even seen marine plywood, or products like Starboard, (not that you would use it as a core) most companies won't ship out of the US and when shipping is possible you have very expensive shipping costs and customs duties to pay.

So you take what you can get.

I've been repairing this boat all over the world (BOATS!) and that is often the case.

Balsa is light and strong. I have about 90% of my deck still in perfect condition with balsa core. It is 41 years old.

[coopec43]

Yes, I see what you mean now.

I spent six months working in Namibia and I (personally) found it impossible to buy anything in from overseas.

[danstanford]

The question probably gets more complicated where the temperatures drop into the freezing zone. I bought a boat where the wet core raised the fiberglass deck permanently when it froze. Though it just looked odd I cannot imagine how the inherent strength of the fiberglass wasn't severely compromised by this disruption.