Full Keel vs Fin Keel

[roland stockham]

It is really the wrong question. If a sailboat is to work well the entire structure must work together to create a series of qualities that make it good at a particular type of sailing. So if top speed is a priority the designer minimizes weight and drag, maximizes sail carrying and drive and may maximize pointing ability if speed to windward is a particular goal. All of these will have consequences for other aspects of sailing performance. At the opposite end the goal may be to maximize accommodation within a given waterline length and construction cost. The key is to know what matters to your sailing and understand the trade offs the design make to reach that. I my case the ability to manage rough weather with little crew input is a high priority as do a significant amount of long distance solo sailing. I also want a design that can dry against a wall or on a beach and is well protected in a grounding (prop and rudder). I also want something that does not trow me around, and therefor become tiring, in heavy seas. I am not particularly bothered about speed as long as the boat is responsive and efficient and generally avoid sailing hard on the wind as it makes life uncomfortable. I also need to carry lots of weight both in boat stuff and personal gear. Traditional designs tend to be good at this and I had the opportunity to get a good one so it works for me. A lightweight fin keeler would not but that does not make one inherently better than the other just more suitable for me. I have raced light weight fin keelers and it is great fun but after 4hrsthe entire crew was shattered!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by brewski

I mean this is a never ending argument, but there's no evidence that a fin keel (especially a deep bulb keel) is "more seaworthy" than a full keel.

Faster? Yes.

More maneuverable? Yes.

But seaworthiness entails much more than just what boat goes the fastest and how well you can pick your way around a tight anchorage.

Needless to say there are also fin keel boats that are truly dogs, and full keel boats with surprising performance.

Its literally all compromises, and some will be happy with a full keel while others will only be satisfied with a deep bulb. Some will choose Alubat type swing keels, and others will choose the stable beam of a catamaran.

But let's not go around pretending one design is the end all, be all in seaworthiness.

What you write is all true, but I don't think anyone said that.

[fireman182]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

It is really the wrong question. If a sailboat is to work well the entire structure must work together to create a series of qualities that make it good at a particular type of sailing. So if top speed is a priority the designer minimizes weight and drag, maximizes sail carrying and drive and may maximize pointing ability if speed to windward is a particular goal. All of these will have consequences for other aspects of sailing performance. At the opposite end the goal may be to maximize accommodation within a given waterline length and construction cost. The key is to know what matters to your sailing and understand the trade offs the design make to reach that. I my case the ability to manage rough weather with little crew input is a high priority as do a significant amount of long distance solo sailing. I also want a design that can dry against a wall or on a beach and is well protected in a grounding (prop and rudder). I also want something that does not trow me around, and therefor become tiring, in heavy seas. I am not particularly bothered about speed as long as the boat is responsive and efficient and generally avoid sailing hard on the wind as it makes life uncomfortable. I also need to carry lots of weight both in boat stuff and personal gear. Traditional designs tend to be good at this and I had the opportunity to get a good one so it works for me. A lightweight fin keeler would not but that does not make one inherently better than the other just more suitable for me. I have raced light weight fin keelers and it is great fun but after 4hrsthe entire crew was shattered!

Everything you say is true. Makes sense. Your logic is sound.

My question remains, pro & con for fin vs full keel

Looking to deep into the question.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by fireman182

Hey Guys,

I'm just looking for thoughts on the great modern sailing debate. Old vs New. Traditional vs modern.

Full Keel vs Fin Keel. What are the pros and cons for each?

Is the fin keel the most popular design of todays modern sailboat? Is it safe?
Strong enough for the worst ocean weather?

What are your thoughts?

I came up with a few pros and cons.

Full Keel

Pro

Wont break off
Tracks better
Protects prop
Protects Rudder

Con

Difficult to maneuver
Heavier design

Was keel design a big decision when buying your boat??

I don't race and speed has not been a priority for me. I had plans to sail the Pacific and tested my fin keeled boat on a counterclockwise solo circumnavigation of Vancouver Island, BC. This was my first ocean experience and it told me I needed a bigger boat and also a more seaway comfortable one; so COMFORT ratio was important to me as well as CAPSIZE ratio since offshore was my goal. I built a database of 3,000+ sailboats in different rigging configurations where applicable and came up with a short list. I looked at a lot of boats and that cannot be overemphasized. My roundtrips to Hawaii and Alaska have convinced me that I made the right choice for myself. But no boat is perfect or does all things well. You need to decide what is important to you.

One thing I haven't read on this post are the differences in bilges. The fin keeled boats I've owned had rather flat bilges and they were a PITA with spillages fairly common. As apposed to the boat I own now (long fin plus skeg) a deep bilge just doesn't have that problem but they will have their own idiosyncrasies to deal with, like increased distance to lift bilge water to the thruhull.

You can't do too much research or see too many boats before you make your purchase. Selecting the wrong boat for your intended use and waters will surely lead to disappointment.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Jeff L]

One thing you left off of your pros list is that usually the full keel is a shallower draft, thus allowing you to go more places. It was a big factor in our decision because we like so many of the islands that are surrounded by very shallow water. We also like the stability the full keel provides offshore. Trying to back the boat into a slip with wind, current and other factors, is definitely more challenging, however. You can learn to do it, but in full disclosure, our full keel boat does not back well at all. With that being said, I still would buy full keel for my personal needs.

[MicHughV]

you can't have this discussion without also throwing in "winged keels"....."centerboards"...."bilge keels"...."keel/rudder connection", etc, ad infinitum.....

There are gazillions of different sailboat models out there, all with different types of keels demonstrating the wide diversity....long, short, fat, thin, full, etc....

If you are fixated on a certain type of keel, draft, etc.....focus on the boats that have them...and go from there....some people like blondes...others like brunette's.....there will NEVER be a consensus here...not ever...

get what you like...and like what you'll get...simple....

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by fireman182

No worries friend. I don't imagine full keels interest a Hunter sailor much.

You've got bigger fish to fry 🤣🤣🤣

Spoken like a true troll.

[Cheechako]

Basic engineering for reliability suggests:
-Bolts in sea water fail eventually. keel bolts are expected to hold tons.
-Distribution of force is best over a larger area and with a radius to distribute it. Bolt on keels often have a sharp corner where they meet the hull and half as much area due to length todistribute stress as long keels. Molded in keels often have a huge radius to distribute stress to the hull.

[fireman182]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

Spoken like a true troll.

I disagree. If I wanted to be a troll I'd initiate and respond to a thread with which I have no interest in and complain about the content with which doesn't apply to me.

I this case I just replied to a troll comment.

I suppose the old adage "if you cant take it, don't dish it out" still applies after so many years.

I still hope "whats good for the goose is good for the gander"...or is that trolling too??

🤣

Please dont get me wrong. I don't hate Hunters anymore than the other 90% of sailors. Its all in good fun.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by fireman182

Hey Guys,

I'm just looking for thoughts on the great modern sailing debate. Old vs New. Traditional vs modern.

Full Keel vs Fin Keel. What are the pros and cons for each?

Is the fin keel the most popular design of todays modern sailboat? Is it safe?
Strong enough for the worst ocean weather?

What are your thoughts?

I came up with a few pros and cons.

Full Keel

Pro

Wont break off
Tracks better
Protects prop
Protects Rudder

Con

Difficult to maneuver
Heavier design


Was keel design a big decision when buying your boat??

The correct answer is "My keel is the best."

Keel design was not the big decision for me, the whole design was the decision. I wouldn't mind a Cal 40 or a Olson 30 or a Hans Christian because they are all very good at what they do and what they were designed to do. The decision really should rest on what you are planning to do and what your personal preferences are. Most keels stay on boats pretty well.
And I too enjoy ignoring kelp beds and lobster pot lines with my long keel.

[fireman182]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

you can't have this discussion without also throwing in "winged keels"....."centerboards"...."bilge keels"...."keel/rudder connection", etc, ad infinitum.....

There are gazillions of different sailboat models out there, all with different types of keels demonstrating the wide diversity....long, short, fat, thin, full, etc....

If you are fixated on a certain type of keel, draft, etc.....focus on the boats that have them...and go from there....some people like blondes...others like brunette's.....there will NEVER be a consensus here...not ever...

get what you like...and like what you'll get...simple....

I dont disagree. I'm just looking for other sailors thoughts on the pros and cons of 2 most common keel types

[fireman182]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Basic engineering for reliability suggests:
-Bolts in sea water fail eventually. keel bolts are expected to hold tons.
-Distribution of force is best over a larger area and with a radius to distribute it. Bolt on keels often have a sharp corner where they meet the hull and half as much area due to length todistribute stress as long keels. Molded in keels often have a huge radius to distribute stress to the hull.

Good points. I didnt think about those factors. So in Canada where boats are hauled out and put on cradles for the winter, if would be fair to say any extra snow build up could cause issue with the structural integrity ?

I've noticed fin keel cracks where the hull and keel meet. Is that supposed to be glassed in ?

[fireman182]

Originally Posted by Don C L

The correct answer is "My keel is the best."

Keel design was not the big decision for me, the whole design was the decision. I wouldn't mind a Cal 40 or a Olson 30 or a Hans Christian because they are all very good at what they do and what they were designed to do. The decision really should rest on what you are planning to do and what your personal preferences are. Most keels stay on boats pretty well.
And I too enjoy ignoring kelp beds and lobster pot lines with my long keel.

That is the correct answer indeed! I'm more or less just looking at the pro and con of each. Not specifically to narrow down a purchase. I've already made my purchase with a full keel.

If I were to buy again, I may change my mind but for purposes of conversation at my club it is nice to explain the good and bad of the keel I own. Comparatively speaking as well

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by fireman182

Owners are expected to know their keel and sling points. The topic always comes up and pros and cons.

Like clock work. I like it, not every sailor is on forums beating a dead horse

I was referring to your statement that "experienced sailors ask what keel you have.."
Of course owners know (or should) know their keel shape, type etc.. they should also know where their prop shaft exits as slings are not good for them at all.
But as I said.. this has never led to a mega conversation.. except maybe telling the travel lift operator he needs more lift at the front to level up before he gets to high and you tie the slings.

[Hudson Force]

Most often, in today's descriptions, what's called a full keel is not, but instead a long keel with the keel beginning about a quarter of the boat's length aft of the stem.

As others have mentioned, the pros and cons are often significant to the type of sailing and cruising areas. We've cruised for miles at five foot depths bay side of the Florida Keys with our long keel at 4'3". We did a great deal of gunkholing subject to groundings. For us one of the greatest benefits of our long keel was the gentile profile presented to whatever we might strike.

I must admit that we were far more cautious in rocky Maine than we were among most of the sand and mud in our typical cruising grounds, but those rocks don't move about like the sand and mud!