Boat Yards and DIY

[TCM1968]

I recently have been looking for a boat yard to haul out and do a bottom paint job on my boat. I plan on having a contractor do the bottom job while I changed out the seacocks and thru hulls myself. We used to have two yards near here that I am aware of that would allow any DIY work. Now one of them is under new owners and no longer allows DIY work. They all claim its is because of insurance requirements. One yard had sent three emails to me encouraging me to email them to schedule the haul out and contractor to do the work. I emailed back requesting what the insurance requirements were and now get no response from them.

Question 1: Wouldn't my 500k Liability ins. cover anything caused by myself or boat while in the yard?

Question 2: If the answer to question 1 is no then what would it take to get an insurance rider to cover this while in the yard?

Question 3: If question 1 is no and question 2 is there is no way to procure this type of insurance on my own then how do the yards that do allow DIY work stay in business?

I think it pretty ridiculous to pay a contractor $100 plus per hour to do something I am more than capable and qualified to do myself. Not to mention there is no guarantee the contractor will do it to my standards as this is not always in line with their profits.

Also I am not trying to start a debate on here of weather or not the boat yard owner has the right to do business anyway he or she wants. I just would rather be told "We don't want your business here unless we can make extra cash from you using contractors" than "We can't allow it because of insurance reasons." because if that were the case the yard down road would not be allowing DIY either.

[CassidyNZ]

Yard rules unfortunately don’t care about what the boat owners wants or doesn’t want. I have always done my own anti fouling including wet sanding which I find quite easy. The (only) yard near us has a non-paved hard stand and consequently they don’t allow wet sanding because of the nasties entering the ground.

So now the only way to sand is dry sanding with vacuum to contain the dust. First time I tried that myself using rented equipment, it took twice as long and nearly killed me(figuratively speaking). So even though I’m allowed DIY, now I will be paying the yard to sand.

Alternative? Sail 300nm to get to the next available yard that is paved and allows wet sanding.

So for me it’s not about insurance or the prospect of causing loss, it’s about sub-standard yard conditions requiring more elaborate arrangements.

[JPA Cate]

Hello, TCM1968,

This will probably be partly determined by your location, at least it does, here in Australia. If you tell people roughly where you are, you may get some specific recommendations.

Ann

[TCM1968]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hello, TCM1968,

This will probably be partly determined by your location, at least it does, here in Australia. If you tell people roughly where you are, you may get some specific recommendations.

Ann

Clear lake Texas

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by TCM1968

Clear lake Texas

You're in the US, it is probably EPA driven. The almighty dollar is probably involved also, you can bet the yards make a % on the work.

[sanibel sailor]

I just hauled and had the bottom painted. I've always done it myself in the past, at the same yard, same owner. This time he gives me a hard time about wanting to swap out one seacock. Says that his insurance company demands that he pay worker's compensation insurance on do-it-yourselfers in the yard. Suggested I go 50 miles north to another yard. Meanwhile his published rate sheet has a daily DIY rate. When I agreed maybe somewhere else would be better, he relented and generously granted permission. I don't mind being told no DIY, but the dishonesty is troubling.

[wingless]

There are only two DIY yards remaining in my area.

My preference is Anglers Avenue Marine Center because they permit continuous work by the owner and charge a small daily fee if contractor work is required.

The DIY yards are disappearing because buyers are throwing money at waterfront property owners and once sold they don't have to deal w/ the aggravation of running the business.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by wingless

There are only two DIY yards remaining in my area.

My preference is Anglers Avenue Marine Center because they permit continuous work by the owner and charge a small daily fee if contractor work is required.

The DIY yards are disappearing because buyers are throwing money at waterfront property owners and once sold they don't have to deal w/ the aggravation of running the business.

Those that remain can set their own price. Someone needs to do the work on the yachts of those that have homes where the boat yards once were.

[Dooglas]

You are asking us what personal liability insurance is adequate for DIY work in a privately owned boatyard? Isn't the question what the owner will accept? If anything other than the yard's insurance under the company's terms.

[pcmm]

Just be glad you only need $500k liability. Where I am most marinas REQUIRE a min of $1million and are starting to strongly recommend $2M liability

[MJH]

Originally Posted by TCM1968

I recently have been looking for a boat yard to haul out and do a bottom paint job on my boat. I plan on having a contractor do the bottom job while I changed out the seacocks and thru hulls myself. We used to have two yards near here that I am aware of that would allow any DIY work. Now one of them is under new owners and no longer allows DIY work. They all claim its is because of insurance requirements. One yard had sent three emails to me encouraging me to email them to schedule the haul out and contractor to do the work. I emailed back requesting what the insurance requirements were and now get no response from them.

Question 1: Wouldn't my 500k Liability ins. cover anything caused by myself or boat while in the yard?

Question 2: If the answer to question 1 is no then what would it take to get an insurance rider to cover this while in the yard?

Question 3: If question 1 is no and question 2 is there is no way to procure this type of insurance on my own then how do the yards that do allow DIY work stay in business?

I think it pretty ridiculous to pay a contractor $100 plus per hour to do something I am more than capable and qualified to do myself. Not to mention there is no guarantee the contractor will do it to my standards as this is not always in line with their profits.

Also I am not trying to start a debate on here of weather or not the boat yard owner has the right to do business anyway he or she wants. I just would rather be told "We don't want your business here unless we can make extra cash from you using contractors" than "We can't allow it because of insurance reasons." because if that were the case the yard down road would not be allowing DIY either.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is getting difficult to locate boat yards that allow DIY work here in Puget Sound as well. The yards say it is driven by EPA rules but I suspect that management uses that as a reason to not allow DIY for greater profit as the remaining yards do allow some DIY under their management policies. The situation does cause inconveniences in getting the work done. I have my boat on a two year maintenance cycle and travel 80nm to Port Townsend. This allows me to get DIY work done while I live aboard; timing is usually in conjunction with a spring/summer cruise north. That is small comfort when the local marina is only 18nm away by boat/15 minutes by car from my home where I moor my boat 24/7/365 to a buoy. I don't see any improvement until more boat owners elect to bypass these non-DIY yards in favor of their DIY yard competitors...I don't see that happening anytime soon.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[sailah]

This exact reason is why I started paying to have my boat hauled 4 miles each way to store behind my barn. It ends up being $1,000 cheaper vs storing it with them. And I have all the compressed air, 120V power and water I can use.

My marina does allow DIY work but owner only. I'm sure that is bound to change though.

[TCM1968]

Update: I received an email today from the boat yard stating that they required only a standard marina policy of 1 Million in liability coverage with them named as other insured. I am going to check with my ins provider to inquire as to what this additional coverage to my already 500K liability would be for the 2 weeks I plan on being in the yard. If this isn't too much I don't believe that is an unreasonable requirement from the boat yard. But why not just say this when asked if I can perform my own work instead of responding with we don't allow it do to insurance reasons? Are they not just loosing business this way? I am curious as to what their response will be when I inform them I have enough insurance.

What seems to really get me is that there is a considerable amount of work I would probably hire them to do for me as it is either above my expertise or something I just would not rather do myself. But if you turn me away when I want to change out a simple seacock myself, then I'll be damned if you earn my business for the other work. Again I believe the owner has the right to operate anyway in which he chooses, but I think it is a poor business model to blanket reject revenue from DIY'ers. Further it is obviously not forbidden by EPA or insurance companies otherwise there would be no DIY yards. I just would like to know I'm doing business with honest people. If someone is going to lie to you so you will pay him to do the work how can you trust them them to not cut corners on that said work to make a few extra bucks.

I have worked my whole life in the service and construction industries and one thing I have learned over the years was that people employed by companies to do work and provide services aren't always as qualified as that company leads the customer to believe.

[CarinaPDX]

Unfortunately we live in a world of spin, and even outright dishonesty. Insurance companies do not demand "no DIY" - if the boatyard wanted DIY they would buy a policy that covered DIY. That may cost more - I just don't know. But how convenient to blame the "evil" insurance companies for blocking DIY and forcing customers to pay the yard for all of the work. Similarly, the EPA does not insist that only "professionals" remove the bottom paint, only that environmental contamination does not occur. Putting a disposable tarp down to collect the dust, then disposing in a HazMat dumpster is acceptable. There is a long history of yards bundling haul/pressure wash/block/launch for a package price, and when considering the cost of the filter equipment to process the collected water I feel that is an acceptable approach. My experience with boatyard paint jobs is not good, with prices too high and quality too low, but of course that is not always the case. I strongly prefer to do my own paint job with my own paint (some yards require that the paint be purchased from them if they allow DIY - yet another way of squeezing out more income). These days just finding a DIY yard is difficult enough - I will (reluctantly) agree to a package that includes the full bottom job if necessary - but don't like it.

My feeling is that the impoverishment of the middle class in the U.S. is killing cruising, which in turn is putting financial strain on the boatyards, who try to make it up by squeezing more money out of each haulout - which drivews more customers out of sailing in a downward spiral. The industry is thus changing to cater to the wealthy. IMHO this is a very unfortunate outcome.

An earlier poster mentioned the demand by marinas to put the marina as an insured on boat policies. This seems to me to be a very bad idea for us. Without the extension if there is a claim your insurance company will be on your side in arguing claims, sometimes against the marina, but with the addition the marina becomes their customer as well. This is great for the marina, but is this fair? The marina insurance company may demand this as it makes resolving claims easier for them, but it seems to me to be an abuse of power: individually we are helpless to fight this. Broadly speaking this is part of a very widespread abuse of consumers with "agreements" which we are required to accept in order to purchase goods and services, and which rig the system by forcing us to give up our rights. I am not a lawyer, but that is how I see things...

Greg

[Badsanta]

Check out Jennings Boatyard in Reedville virgina. New floating docks, new bath house. Great DIY yard. I've been there for years.