Outboard vs. Inboard - Repowering a 31' 1979 CAL

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Don C L

You missed a spot

next coat I will geter dun

[BeachGuy]

A little late to the party, but this is what i did to a 1980 Catalina 30. I'm not the first one to do so. After reading all the replies the one item I did not see was that nobody bothered to tell you what it cost to replace all the worn out parts of the propulsion system. On a boat that old the rebuilt engine is the cheapest part of going that route. I know of nobody which needed an overhauled engine that had new or reasonably new part the make up the whole system. Just start with new engine mounts and go from there.
I installed a Suzuki 9.9 efi long shaft and outboard engine mount on my Cat 30 in February. At 3/4 power if pushes me at hull speed. My engine compartment is now additional storage. Be glad to answer any questions.
One major note to this install. I installed the outboard before I removed the old 5411 (11hp) diesel engine and all the related hardware to make it work. Once everything was removed the boat lifted approximately 2" above the old water line. Just recently I've lowered the engine kicker plate by 3". I have not sailed/motored in more than 3' of waves and water action and have not had a problem with prop cavitation. This includes large fishing vessels in the channel making big waves.
Catalina 30 Gallery – Alabama Gulf Coast Real Estate for the photos.

[drcat]

Let me first say - I'm cheap and I approach boat problems with that in mind. Have a Bayliner powerboat with a rusted exhaust manifold and replaced it myself for $200. the engine's alum head #4 exhaust port was corroded( a common problem with these 1980's 4 cyl Volvo gas engines), built it back up with hi temp alum paste and it works fine.
So when it comes to estimates of $15-20K for a replacement diesel engine for a boat I start to question. While there is a great deal of difference between an auto gas engine and a marine gas engine, there is very little difference between a land based tractor diesel and a boat diesel. Take a look at a Kubota deisel engine on ebay - 22 hp for around $2800 plus $150 shipping, or a 17 hp Yanmar for about the same price. Add $400 for a new control panel if you need one. If you need a new water to water heat exchanger - $140, You'll need a raw water pump so go with a variable speed 12v magnetic drive pump for about $140 and add another $30 for a foam airfilter. So you are up to $3700 so far and you might need some additional exhaust pipe, Y pipe, anti siphon valve. The main installation issue (other than alignment and engine mounts)would be matching the the engine to a damper plate and to the transmission housing. This should be doable.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by drcat

Let me first say - I'm cheap and I approach boat problems with that in mind. Have a Bayliner powerboat with a rusted exhaust manifold and replaced it myself for $200. the engine's alum head #4 exhaust port was corroded( a common problem with these 1980's 4 cyl Volvo gas engines), built it back up with hi temp alum paste and it works fine.
So when it comes to estimates of $15-20K for a replacement diesel engine for a boat I start to question. While there is a great deal of difference between an auto gas engine and a marine gas engine, there is very little difference between a land based tractor diesel and a boat diesel. Take a look at a Kubota deisel engine on ebay - 22 hp for around $2800 plus $150 shipping, or a 17 hp Yanmar for about the same price. Add $400 for a new control panel if you need one. If you need a new water to water heat exchanger - $140, You'll need a raw water pump so go with a variable speed 12v magnetic drive pump for about $140 and add another $30 for a foam airfilter. So you are up to $3700 so far and you might need some additional exhaust pipe, Y pipe, anti siphon valve. The main installation issue (other than alignment and engine mounts)would be matching the the engine to a damper plate and to the transmission housing. This should be doable.

there is actually quite a bit more to maranizing an engine than that . Best is to find the same engine for land use and swap marine parts over .

[Jim Cate]

there is actually quite a bit more to maranizing an engine than that

Not wishing to nit pick, but just what are you referring to? I look at my Nanni/Kubota diesel and don't see much beyond what the poster mentioned.

Jim

[BeachGuy]

Back to my earlier post today. Let's talk a 30 year old sailboat in today's market. Let's use my Catalina 30 as an example, sales prices go from please take my boat of my hands to $20,000.
Having done a detailed list of what it would take to go through the diesel engine to the prop would have taken a minimum of $12,500 to completely go through it.
A short list of needed items.
1. Rebuilt or used engine (???) I had a Kubota 5411 engine (11 hp).
2. 30 year old instrument panel. The only item working was the key.
3. New engine and tranny cables.
4. New alternator.
5. Rebuilt water pump.
6. 4 new motor mounts.
7. All new hoses.
8. Used exhaust manifold.
9. New electrical harness. Remember 30 year old wiring.
10. Overhaul heat exchanger.
11. 15 feet of 3" exhaust hose.
12. Inspection of water exhaust box.
13. Inspection or O/H of transmission.
14. 30 year old bronze prop shaft.
15. Cutlass bearing.
16. Three bladed prop was junk, would need a new one.
17. Labor for all this, if I didn't do it myself.
18. Boat was sound, engine and related part not.
19. Let review pricing of used sailboat again.

This Cat 30 was now going to cost more for a re-power than the value of the boat. Should we talk about all the other systems on a sailboat that will require $$$ should something else go wrong. My only salvation was that I paid next to nothing for it in the condition that it was in.
Buying a new or used engine is only 1 item in the big picture. Now let talk about if you change engine brand or up the horsepower and see what is compatible, let's start with the transmission.
Great discussion for someone needing to re-power.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by BeachGuy

Back to my earlier post today. Let's talk a 30 year old sailboat in today's market. Let's use my Catalina 30 as an example, sales prices go from please take my boat of my hands to $20,000.
Having done a detailed list of what it would take to go through the diesel engine to the prop would have taken a minimum of $12,500 to completely go through it.
A short list of needed items.
1. Rebuilt or used engine (???) I had a Kubota 5411 engine (11 hp).
2. 30 year old instrument panel. The only item working was the key.
3. New engine and tranny cables.
4. New alternator.
5. Rebuilt water pump.
6. 4 new motor mounts.
7. All new hoses.
8. Used exhaust manifold.
9. New electrical harness. Remember 30 year old wiring.
10. Overhaul heat exchanger.
11. 15 feet of 3" exhaust hose.
12. Inspection of water exhaust box.
13. Inspection or O/H of transmission.
14. 30 year old bronze prop shaft.
15. Cutlass bearing.
16. Three bladed prop was junk, would need a new one.
17. Labor for all this, if I didn't do it myself.
18. Boat was sound, engine and related part not.
19. Let review pricing of used sailboat again.

This Cat 30 was now going to cost more for a re-power than the value of the boat. Should we talk about all the other systems on a sailboat that will require $$$ should something else go wrong. My only salvation was that I paid next to nothing for it in the condition that it was in.
Buying a new or used engine is only 1 item in the big picture. Now let talk about if you change engine brand or up the horsepower and see what is compatible, let's start with the transmission.
Great discussion for someone needing to re-power.

price depends on where you are and who you know I have a volvo md2b that is like new that cost me total so far $284.00 ( engine 100 bucks, spare for parts 100, new dynostarter 50,
Clean and repaint engine 34 bucks for cleaner and paint. ) still need to get exhaust system parts from mixing elbow to the exhaust shutoff valve. ( stops following seas from flooding system) .

[BeachGuy]

Originally Posted by newhaul

price depends on where you are and who you know I have a volvo md2b that is like new that cost me total so far $284.00 ( engine 100 bucks, spare for parts 100, new dynostarter 50,
Clean and repaint engine 34 bucks for cleaner and paint. ) still need to get exhaust system parts from mixing elbow to the exhaust shutoff valve. ( stops following seas from flooding system) .

Congratulations newhaul, you sir are the lucky one, great find. However the discussion was on Overhauling a old engine in a old boat or going with an outboard engine. I hope that the OP has as much luck as you have had. I do not know anyone who is filthy rich and enjoys working on old wore out boats, much less owns one. They become hand-me downs boats, hand me down a wrench, hand me down cold one, hand me down another of the same wrench I dropped that one in the bilge and can't bend over that far.

[Don C L]

Yeah the filthy rich probably aren't looking at old Catalina 30s or following this thread.... We're just trying to figure out how to keep the nearly-filthy-rich older guys still out there sailing on the older boats.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by BeachGuy

Congratulations newhaul, you sir are the lucky one, great find. However the discussion was on Overhauling a old engine in a old boat or going with an outboard engine. I hope that the OP has as much luck as you have had. I do not know anyone who is filthy rich and enjoys working on old wore out boats, much less owns one. They become hand-me downs boats, hand me down a wrench, hand me down cold one, hand me down another of the same wrench I dropped that one in the bilge and can't bend over that far.

I offered to take a look at his engine gratis while I was in Seattle and my offer still stands
My point in the last post is there are deals out there that are available to keep our classic plastics out here on the big blue on the cheap.