Feel like I'm flipping a coin - rebuild or repower

[Cthoops]

We have a Yanmar YSB12 on our 1977 Bristol 29.9 which we've owned since August, 2015. We don't have any idea how the prior owners took care of the engine (save for the fact that the zinc clearly hadn't been replaced in a while), but it has run like a champ so far. I do believe that the boat has been in the Northeast it's entire life (so 6 month sailing season, max).

In September, 2018 we are cutting the lines and going cruising. We'll be heading down the ICW and down into the Caribbean, and then see where want to go from there. This is a few years earlier than we had planned, so we are eyeing every purchase very carefully. Before moving up our departure date we had planned on getting a new engine (Beta or Yanmar, 16 hp), but now we're not so sure.

The idea behind getting a new engine was because it would (presumably) be more reliable, lighter, and quieter (the single cylinder YSB12 is LOUD). We didn't want to find ourselves in a position where the old engine left us stranded in some remote place, unable to find a part that is no longer in existence. But again, the engine has been so reliable - maybe it could go for another ten years or more? We are the type of people who will wait for the wind to shift vs. motoring somewhere, so it's not like we're planning to use it all day every day for months on end (except for the trip down the ICW).

We have a mechanic who comes highly recommended, and we were thinking of calling him and having him give the engine a thorough going-over, replacing parts that look suspect, and seeing what he has to say about it. Of course there's no guarantee that it won't give up the ghost the day after the mechanic does this. Frankly at this point it doesn't feel much better than simply flipping a coin.

Any thoughts, opinions, or personal experience would be welcome.

[a64pilot]

That engine could die tomorrow, or could still be chugging away after your long gone.
I would definitely go with the mechanic and maybe have the dinghy outboard as a back up on a bracket just in case.
If he is a good, honest mechanic his expert opinion after inspecting the engine will be far more valuable than any guess I could make.

If it runs well and if parts are still available, I'd leave it. My engine is 30 yrs old, runs like a top though and I have decided to keep it as long as I can get repair parts

[RaymondR]

One of the things which can be said in favour of old marine engines is their pure simplicity.


Some years ago I decided to re-engine my boat with a replacement of the same make but decided against it after inspecting the candidate replacement and bought a basic industrial engine and marinized it. The later model had too much flimsy looking stuff hanging off it and I could envision it leaving me in the lurch when some piece of flimsy looking electronics failed.


I recently bought a used diesel van which has common rail injection under computer control. When I went to a dealer service department to ask what was indicated by one of the dash warning lamps the service manager asked me where I was going. When informed that I was undertaking a 5,000K trip across Australia he remarked "Well, good luck with that." Not very reassuring and I would much rather have the old mechanical pump and injector style fuel system which I feel I can personally trouble shoot and repair rather than electronic mysteries.


It's hard to beat simplicity and durability in a cruising boat's propulsion systems.

[markwesti]

Is It fresh or raw cooled ? How old is it , how many hrs. are on it ? Getting good oil pressure ? Our 2QM15 Yanmar it's starting to get hard to find parts , heavy duty stuff like a oil pump . I thought our 2cyl. was loud and rough I could not imagine a single . But we do what we gotta do , you say it runs good and if the mechanic gives it a thorough go over and says good then it would be hard to justify a new engine especially when a new one when it's all said and done will be over 10K . But on the other side of the coin a new 2 cyl. Beta with a beefy alternator would be a nice addition to your cruising plans . Sorry that wasn't much help .

[Lepke]

What I do is carry spares of what might fail. Water pumps, starter, alternator, etc. With older engines, Ebay is a good place to find spare parts. When engines are getting internally worn you usually see hard starting in cold weather (fixed with a block heater), some smoke and maybe an oil sheen in the exhaust water. All usable while you go somewhere to rebuild/replace. Most rebuild businesses have access to internal parts. My Detroit mains are 70 years old and I have no problem getting any part. My Perkins (1972) generator ditto. My Onan is something else.
When you replace an engine with something different, you have hook up and alignment costs, too.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

We have a Yanmar YSB12 on our 1977 Bristol 29.9 which we've owned since August, 2015. We don't have any idea how the prior owners took care of the engine (save for the fact that the zinc clearly hadn't been replaced in a while), but it has run like a champ so far. I do believe that the boat has been in the Northeast it's entire life (so 6 month sailing season, max).

In September, 2018 we are cutting the lines and going cruising. We'll be heading down the ICW and down into the Caribbean, and then see where want to go from there. This is a few years earlier than we had planned, so we are eyeing every purchase very carefully. Before moving up our departure date we had planned on getting a new engine (Beta or Yanmar, 16 hp), but now we're not so sure.

The idea behind getting a new engine was because it would (presumably) be more reliable, lighter, and quieter (the single cylinder YSB12 is LOUD). We didn't want to find ourselves in a position where the old engine left us stranded in some remote place, unable to find a part that is no longer in existence. But again, the engine has been so reliable - maybe it could go for another ten years or more? We are the type of people who will wait for the wind to shift vs. motoring somewhere, so it's not like we're planning to use it all day every day for months on end (except for the trip down the ICW).

We have a mechanic who comes highly recommended, and we were thinking of calling him and having him give the engine a thorough going-over, replacing parts that look suspect, and seeing what he has to say about it. Of course there's no guarantee that it won't give up the ghost the day after the mechanic does this. Frankly at this point it doesn't feel much better than simply flipping a coin.

Any thoughts, opinions, or personal experience would be welcome.

A new engine is a lot of money and you still don't have a guarantee that it won't break down. What about getting your mechanic friend to look it over and do any necessary repairs/upgrades? Then buy a few essential replacement parts (injector, raw water pump, alternator, gaskets, mixing elbow etc.) and at least you'll have a "second engine" in parts. A diesel engine is a pretty tough machine and it's almost always the peripheral parts that give you problems.

I'm looking forward to the replies as I have a 20-year old Yanmar 3GM30 in my boat!

[estarzinger]

something you may not know . . . .there are decent diesel engine skills EVERYWHERE. You can get it fixed anywhere and even replaced almost anywhere. You dont need to do it now.

[TheOffice]

Get an oil analysis and compression test done. It will give you real data.

[fstarocka]

we have fishing boats from the 70s - 4 diesel bangers that literally do not and can not stop running, and they are maintained by very cheap fisherman with screw drivers, pliers and no money.

non turbo diesels are in my opinion some of the most reliable things out there.

having said that - if the manifolds are flaking rust and the things falling apart thats another story, but either way just carry some spares, heck buy an engine rebuild kit - find someone who can rebuild it IF it blows.. a spare con rod and piston never hurt

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

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We have a mechanic who comes highly recommended, and we were thinking of calling him and having him give the engine a thorough going-over, replacing parts that look suspect, and seeing what he has to say about it. Of course there's no guarantee that it won't give up the ghost the day after the mechanic does this. Frankly at this point it doesn't feel much better than simply flipping a coin.

Any thoughts, opinions, or personal experience would be welcome.

I would strongly urge you to learn to be your own mechanic.

This mechanic will NOT be coming with you, will he?

Seriously, I put off buying a bigger boat years ago because of diesels and bleeding, oh my gosh!!!

Once I did, I learned to be my own mechanic. It's a safety issue. I ain't ever gonna be tearing it down to the innards, but I do know everything basic that can and needs to be done: fluids changes are easy, but I've replaced the muffler, all hoses and the exhaust riser twice.

You NEED to know this stuff. And have the right tools and parts to do it.

Maybe that just me...and my opinion.

[Jim Cate]

With some of the money you save by not repowering, buy some lead loaded sound barrier material for the engine box walls. Sure made a difference in noise levels in our old boat with its two cylinder BMW engine.

And do tell us how many hours on yours, just for a reference point.

Jim

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

We have a mechanic who comes highly recommended, and we were thinking of calling him and having him give the engine a thorough going-over, replacing parts that look suspect, and seeing what he has to say about it. Of course there's no guarantee that it won't give up the ghost the day after the mechanic does this. Frankly at this point it doesn't feel much better than simply flipping a coin.

Any thoughts, opinions, or personal experience would be welcome.

Probably neither rebuild nor replace.

Having the mechanic go over it is a good idea.

Compression test. Oil analysis; these are better done as an annual thing, to establish a baseline and then track from there... but the first one can still sometimes tell you if something catastrophic is happening.

If good, do a mostly-complete service: oil and filter change, fuel filter service, raw water pump impeller change (maybe even a new raw water pump (save the old for a spare), heat exchanger flush, drain/flush/replace coolant... new belt(s)... along with probably a valve job... maybe check and replace the starter (save the old for a spare)... maybe check and replace the alternator (keep the old on for a spare)... and (depending on what the mechanic suggests) maybe injector service/replacement.

At that point... you'll mostly have a new engine..

Then learn how to do all that yourself. Money spent on a diesel course would be WAY less than replacing that engine.

Get spares aboard; mostly it's the bolt-ons that fail first. Travel another 10K hours on the engine you've got...

-Chris

[Cthoops]

I appreciate all of the input from everyone.

A few more details: There's no hour meter on the engine so I don't know how many hours it has. It's original to the boat (so 40 years old) and raw water cooled. Although we are newbies when it comes to diesels, we have signed up for a hands on weekend course next month so that should help. We also have the Calder book. We do know how to change the oil, fuel filters, and impeller (and how to bleed the engine), and have done those things for spring prep the past two seasons. It starts immediately even after sitting over the winter, and the only issue we've had so far was the result of a cracked washer on the fuel filter which allowed air to get sucked in.

Last night we spent some time speaking with the Beta dealer here and left leaning towards buying a new one, but this morning after reading the replies here I'm once again leaning towards keeping this engine after getting a thorough inspection from our mechanic (plus the oil analysis).

Again, my greatest concern is being stuck somewhere unable to find a part because there are no longer any in existence, but I suppose at that point we could put in a new one. If we were someplace where a new install wasn't possible, I guess we could sail somewhere else. It is a sailboat after all. Perhaps I'm worrying over something that is extremely unlikely to happen (i.e. being in a place where I can't get a part or a new engine).

[gspeak]

Here is an alternative view.

We are just about to replace the motors & sail drives in our Lagoon 380 with new Yanmar 3GM30AEC & SD25 saildrives. Haul out next week.

The 3GM30F are 13 years old & have done 8,400 hours. We bought her 6 years ago & they had done 7,600 hours then as a charter boat.

We have been living aboard & cruising the Queensland coast since 2015.

I always said I would keep them going & would rebuild if I had to. I've rebuilt/replaced so much of them already .... pumps, engine mounts, seals, cooling systems, starter motors, alternators etc etc.

They are now getting harder & harder to start & the fresh water pump on the port motor has just collapsed. I just don't have the confidence in them any more & tired of continually repairing & replacing, sometimes in the most inappropriate conditions & times. I am constantly worried about what & when the next thing will break. It is also becoming more difficult to find parts for the older motors & sail drives.

To us it has become as much a safety decision as anything else. She is our home & we so love the cruising life that we're likening the cost to re-power, as akin to renovating a bathroom or kitchen in your house.

Yep it's costly but, in our case, was always inevitable & we had previously budgeted for it.

Dave

[Sailmonkey]

Maybe do the ICW and see what you think of the clunker once further south. Have a sea tow membership to get you to a port should the engine fail along the way.
My gut suspicion is that even if that engine makes it, you'll opt for newer smoother tech for peace and quiet and for peace of mind.