Diesel Outboards in USA

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That gets you right back to the range, speed, power issue of electric over internal combustion. Ive not seen a torquedo on plane, and if it could, I doubt it could for long.
Where I am now, I’m not allowed to plane, and it’s been windy with decent waves, and it’s a PIA, cause normally I can jump on plane and have a dry ride in the dinghy, plowing along, not so much.

I'll bet this dinghy would keep you dry! And because it's a Hinckley you know it's affordable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW-LP4w9nnk

https://www.hinckleyyachts.com/news/...-luxury-yacht/

To be clear I'm not suggesting that electric makes more sense than gas but the premise of this thread is an alternative to gas outboards. Personally I think gas outboards are going to dominate the market for a long time. They've gotten very efficient, lighter & way more powerful. Yamaha now has a 425 hp beast. We went to the St Pete Boat Show a couple of weeks ago & there was a 45' Endeavour Trawler Cat with 2 300hp outboards & MJM has now come out with a 53' Express Cruiser powered by 4 outboards.

https://www.mjmyachts.com/new-53z

[Fence Man]

If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIwe4b7WQ1s

[a64pilot]

From what I have seen, once you give up planing and the range that comes from that ability, a good hard dink that rows well seems to be as good as an inflatable with a Torquedo.
Electric propulsion for boats is still I believe an oddity, not real practical, best use is someone who is determined to make it work and will accept its drawbacks. Similar I guess to a sailing dinghy, they have drawbacks of course, but when the wind is blowing, they do quite well indeed.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Electric propulsion for boats is still I believe an oddity, not real practical

More true for dinghy when range is needed.

For the mothership, backed by a big diesel genset, I'm seeing some good use cases.

Compared to a big diesel outboard, to me separating the power generation from the propulsion gives a lot more flexibility when space & weight are very limited.

But I guess OT here, didn't mean to derail.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

From what I have seen, once you give up planing and the range that comes from that ability, a good hard dink that rows well seems to be as good as an inflatable with a Torquedo.
Electric propulsion for boats is still I believe an oddity, not real practical, best use is someone who is determined to make it work and will accept its drawbacks. Similar I guess to a sailing dinghy, they have drawbacks of course, but when the wind is blowing, they do quite well indeed.

Clearly Torqueedo has outboards & battery packs that will give you both speed & range but it comes at a pretty steep price.
https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/pr...tboards/cruise

Again though, this thread is not about dinghy power, it's about an alternative to outboard gas propulsion for the mother ship. I think electric outboards with a diesel generator make more sense than something like the Yanmar diesel outboard which is very heavy & very expensive.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by SparkyDorado

You could build a long-tail "mud motor" with a small air-cooled diesel engine. Kits are readily available on ebay. It would be loud and impractical, but certainly unique - I've never seen one hanging off the transom of a sailboat.

A buddy of mine built one of these while at my place in Guatemala. He brought the drive leg parts in his luggage, bought a small motor, and we fabricated the mounting base.

It was gas, but same principal.

I think it would be impractical: that long shaft to deal with, no reverse gear, ...

Its big advantage is that its very inexpensive to build compared to buying an outboard. Thats why he wanted to build it in Guate...to show the locals a cheaper option. It was fun, but didnt catch on for the above reasons, despite the big price diff. In the end they stuck with OB's and used to motor to power a water pump.

Link to video of test run:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8om0s6h5g...03725.mp4?dl=0

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

$14,500 for a motor and one pack.
If you have a 16’ aluminum fishing boat and want to plane, it will take two packs to drive it at 25 mph for one hour. Each pack is 8.5 KWH and built apparently from Panasonic 18650 cells and weighing 118 lbs each.
Then how are you going to re-charge these packs?
That and money are always the problems with electric propulsion for a cruiser, how are you going to recharge?

yes expensive but he didn't ask about price just availability .
There are also several Italian models available.
Saw a tv program on discovery channel about them several years ago.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Clearly Torqueedo has outboards & battery packs that will give you both speed & range but it comes at a pretty steep price.

https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/pr...tboards/cruise



Again though, this thread is not about dinghy power, it's about an alternative to outboard gas propulsion for the mother ship. I think electric outboards with a diesel generator make more sense than something like the Yanmar diesel outboard which is very heavy & very expensive.

How is a Diesel generator and an electric outboard either cheaper or lighter than a Diesel outboard?
OK I got the fact that when your not moving you have a generator, I also understand that both propulsion and your electrical system are now tied to one motor.

When I first started looking at cruising, I quickly came to the conclusion that the Holy Grail was a massive Lithium bank with a DC generator and likely electric drive, however as I really started looking I began to realize why nobody offers such a beast, it first broke down with DC power generation, then the reality of a massive Lithium bank, and finally the electric drive.
Turned out what I was looking at was heavier, less efficient and orders of magnitude more expensive, and would be DIY project and forget getting parts in the backcountry.
It’s a lot like building your own boat, do you want to build or do you want to cruise? I know people build their own boats, myself I didn’t have the years to spend doing so, and I’m not particularly ENA mores with boat building.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

How is a Diesel generator and an electric outboard either cheaper or lighter than a Diesel outboard?
OK I got the fact that when your not moving you have a generator, I also understand that both propulsion and your electrical system are now tied to one motor.

When I first started looking at cruising, I quickly came to the conclusion that the Holy Grail was a massive Lithium bank with a DC generator and likely electric drive, however as I really started looking I began to realize why nobody offers such a beast, it first broke down with DC power generation, then the reality of a massive Lithium bank, and finally the electric drive.
Turned out what I was looking at was heavier, less efficient and orders of magnitude more expensive, and would be DIY project and forget getting parts in the backcountry.
It’s a lot like building your own boat, do you want to build or do you want to cruise? I know people build their own boats, myself I didn’t have the years to spend doing so, and I’m not particularly ENA mores with boat building.

This is no longer a do it yourself application. It's clear that Torqueedo can make this happen if you throw enough money at them. An electric outboard would be lighter than a diesel outboard and having the generator inboard would keep that weight off of the transom plus you would have the generator for the rest of your electrical needs. You could do this without the generator but that only makes sense if you are using shore power to recharge which makes no sense for cruisers. I talked to the rep from Mastry at the Boat Show & he said the price on the Yanmar will be around $40,000. Right now they are targeting the military & commercial applications where they don't want to carry 2 types of fuel. Of course this is a hypothetical discussion because the Yanmar is not available in the US. Right now, if you want an alternative to a gas outboard your only choice is propane or electric.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by tbodine88

I want a Diesel outboard under 50 hp on my next boat...(snip)

thanks

Might help to know what kind of boat you’re talking about?

[a64pilot]

I think I remember reading that the MSRP for the Mercury “Diesel” was about $27K, and isn’t going to be sold to the public, it’s I think 175 HP and way, way lighter than a “Real” Diesel.
I can’t see the military wanting or needing a “Real” Diesel, they just want a motor that will run off of JP8, they don’t need a Diesel.
http://www.mercuryracing.com/wp-cont...lOB_SS_NC1.pdf

$40K is nuts

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think I remember reading that the MSRP for the Mercury “Diesel” was about $27K, and isn’t going to be sold to the public, it’s I think 175 HP and way, way lighter than a “Real” Diesel.
I can’t see the military wanting or needing a “Real” Diesel, they just want a motor that will run off of JP8, they don’t need a Diesel.

$40K is nuts

That's easy. Just stick a turbine on top of a leg. Quiet too. One on a jet drive seems to work well for the military on cigarette boats.

[Suricat46]

Not a direct answer regarding diesel outboards but rather kerosene fuelled engines. I lived in Gabon in the late70 es and early 80es and I noticed most fishermen were using on their pirogues Yamaha outboards with dual fuel, starting with regular petrol and at a certain RPM, the engine would use kerosene. The fuel tank in 2 parts would contain respectively 5 / 20 litres of each. Wonder if those specific engines are still available ?
(Incidentally, I noticed we had a significant "drainage" of kerosene from our aircraft parked at night ... so I started to investigate to understand the "root cause".)

[tbodine88]

Originally Posted by blueprint_33

Check https://www.yanmarmarine.com/dtorque/
They market worldwide the German development of a 2-cyl diesel eigine. To my knowledge this the only engine left, bitterly sought after by all the cruise ships for their zodiacs. They don’t want to deal with petrol below deck.

Note there are no distributors in North America, the clean air act keeps them out:http://https://www.flickr.com/photos...7674754587497/


Its effects became particularly apparent when I came back from the Caribbean in 2002, and could find no easy to use gas can any where in the US.

[Rough Magic]

There are other brands of diesel outboards for sale in the US as noted in previous postings. The EPA doesn't outlaw diesels, but does require they meet clean air standards. Yanmar's are in comp!iance testing now.