Would you choose an Endeavorcat 34 or Gemini 105mc to cross the Atlantic?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Davy J

I've sailed on plenty of different model cats, boarded more than I can count, been doing this for about 26 years...........

Even though I have friends that own Lagoon's, been on them several times, I would not feel qualified to give an opinion about them because I never actually owned one.

Many people are giving responses having owned older Gemini's. While they share some of the same features... they are totally different boats.

How can someone that refitted a prout, know anything about a Gemini? For several years I owned a twin engine Regal express cruiser...... that doesn't mean I know anything about a Tiara......or a Sea Ray or Rinker.

Which hull of 105Mc did you own.........???

2000 105m

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by smj

2000 105m

So not to nit pick, but not actually a 105Mc....

[smj]

Originally Posted by Davy J

So not to nit pick, but not actually a 105Mc....

Not to nit pick, I never stated we owned a Mc

[Davy J]

Even though the the 105M and 105Mc are similar, there is significant differences. Both the rigging and the interior are different. Here is a quote from Laura Hershfeld, Tony Smith's daughter:

Laura: The Gemini 105Mc has been in production since 2004.

What are the differences between it and the model it replaced ?

Laura: The Gemini 105M was the prior model and it had a very different cockpit that could not be enclosed easily with canvas, the interior was a lot of small pieces whereas the 105MC is one continuous pan liner. This dramatically increased the strength and stiffness of the boat, improved the fit and finish and the performance because it reduced the weight.

Links to articles:

https://sailtime.com/blog/gemini-cat...20pan%20liner.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...s/gemini-105mc

[Captain Bill]

To the OPs original question, while I own an Endeavourcat 44, what I can say is that all the Endeavourcats are solidly built and I don't think you would have to worry about them breaking up in bad conditions. I met a guy once that had gotten caught in a storm off of NJ in a 34 and reported 25 ft seas and came through it unscathed. Geminis on the other hand are much more lightly built. I've never owned one but have been on a few and they flex a lot in a sea. The Endeavourcat cat has a much higher center of gravity and does not ride as flat as the Gemini. The Gemini has just enough bridge deck clearance to really jar your teeth in certain wave conditions. The Endeavourcat 34 has a wave splitter that seems to help with that a bit better and has almost no bridge deck clearance. Oddly that makes it ride a bit better in similar circumstances because the waves don't seem to be able to gain the seed to slap the bottom of the bridge deck as much or maybe it's the heavier build that absorbs more of the energy and it just doesn't seem to rattle your teeth as much. Unfortunately I am aware of one Gemini that was lost after a day of pounding into 4-6 ft seas in the gulf stream off of the Fl keys a couple of years ago. While we don't know exactly what broke, one hull flooded and the boat capsized. You can read about the loss of the Kindred Spirit here on CF. It's not known if the hull failed or some fitting broke loose, but all the flexing the hull was doing could have caused either.



As I stated before I own a 44ft Endeavourcat and I would never cross the North Atlantic with it. The high CG and narrow beam is just not stable enough if one were to get caught in a storm with large breaking seas. The 34 has similar issues. If I were crossing from east to west in the trades outside of hurricane season I would probably trust it. Both the Gemini and Endeavourcat were designed as coastal cruisers and should probably be treated that way.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

You can read about the loss of the Kindred Spirit here on CF. It's not known if the hull failed or some fitting broke loose, but all the flexing the hull was doing could have caused either.

Good grief............ Can anybody get their facts straight..........???

That boat was a 1994 Gemini 3400............ Not a 105Mc.

Two completely different boats..............

[Singularity]

This thread includes a comment by someone who reportedly attended a presentation where Tony (Gemini designer) said "never again" about the Atlantic crossing. Otherwise recounts an anecdote of a Gemini somewheres en route to/from Hawaii suffering a bulkhead failure, reportedly overloaded.

As stated by the OP in the first post...anything can cross an ocean. So what's the difference between a coastal cruiser and off-shore/bluewater boat if not greater tolerance to stress and/or sub-optimal seamanship?

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Davy J

Good grief............ Can anybody get their facts straight..........???

That boat was a 1994 Gemini 3400............ Not a 105Mc.

Two completely different boats..............

I agree two completely different boats, but I would argue they were both built with the same design philosophy. That is they are both built very lightly. I have in fact been on both and think that the 105mc might even flex a bit more than the 3400. Just as I Would note that the Endeavourcat 34 is a completely different hull design than my 44 but they are both built with the same design philosophy and have similar strengths and weaknesses. I still would not take either across the north Atlantic. Sorry if I wasn't clear on the point I was trying to make.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I agree two completely different boats,

Yet you presented the info like they were the same........

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

, but all the flexing the hull was doing could have caused either.

Pure speculation..........

I've owned my Gemini 105Mc for about 7 years, I have no idea what the "flexing" you are talking about even means.........

Sure, bridge deck slap will make the rig shutter, but I have no idea what you are talking about "flexing".......

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by Davy J

Yet you presented the info like they were the same........







Pure speculation..........



I've owned my Gemini 105Mc for about 7 years, I have no idea what the "flexing" you are talking about even means.........



Sure, bridge deck slap will make the rig shutter, but I have no idea what you are talking about "flexing".......

Agree. We had an Mc for 5 years and never experienced flexing.

[Captain Bill]

Well I admit I never owned one, and I've only been sailing on them a few times, but in a chop I definitely felt more what I would describe as flex in that I felt what seemed to be differential motion in the hulls That I've never felt on a Maine cat 30, a Manta 38/40/42, or a Prout 38, or my own Endeavourcat 44. It was my subjective experience so call it what you will. I attributed to the lightness of the build and in the conditions I was in presented no problem. But the question was would you want to cross an ocean in one, and under possible storm conditions in the north Atlantic it would concern me. If you want to cross the north Atlantic in one knock yourself out. I on the other hand wouldn't recommend either boat in question for a north Atlantic crossing. This is my opinion, you are entitled to your own. I'm done with this thread.

[Training Wheels]

I would recommend a BIG cruise liner for crossing the North Atlantic in the winter. I don’t believe that was the OP’s question though. I believe it was just crossing the Atlantic.

[smj]

I wouldn’t buy a Toyota Corolla to go off roading and I wouldn’t buy a Gemini to cross an ocean. Both the Corolla and Gemini are great choices for what they’re designed for.
Of course that doesn’t mean a Gemini couldn’t cross oceans, just there are better boats designed for that purpose.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by smj

I wouldn’t buy a Toyota Corolla to go off roading and I wouldn’t buy a Gemini to cross an ocean. Both the Corolla and Gemini are great choices for what they’re designed for.
Of course that doesn’t mean a Gemini couldn’t cross oceans, just there are better boats designed for that purpose.

See, that's the funny thing, the OP didn't ask about Toyota Corolla's or Prout's or Edels. The question was about two boats.........

Trust me, you most likely won't die if you go offshore on a Gemini 105Mc.

Are there better boats for the job....... sure........ Personally, I'd like to cross on an Antares 44. But for the price, I could park 4 Gemini's in the four corners of the globe, fly to them regularly and have money left over to buy martini's

Can the 105Mc cross the Atlantic........ I posted a video of people doing just that, yet some of you keep saying it can't be done...........

[Sos]

Originally Posted by Davy J

Can the 105Mc cross the Atlantic........ I posted a video of people doing just that, yet some of you keep saying it can't be done...........

I don't think anyone has said it can't be done. The OP's question was "Would you choose...
The general consensus is that they would not CHOOSE either of them!