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smj · 10-03-2019, 08:02

No, weight doesn’t always mean strength. No weight doesn’t always mean seaworthiness. And yes, weight usually means less performance. More weight means the boat needs more sail area which ads stress to the structure. More weight means the boat travels through the water rather on top which ads stress to the structure.

Bean Counter · 10-03-2019, 08:55

I would suggest 99% of sailing catamarans have displacement hulls which travel through the water not on top of it. Skinnier hulls sink further and increase water friction more then a wider hull, for the same load. The way skinny hulled boat owners who want more trappings on their boat compensate is to extend the hulls to increase load capacity and at the same time increase water line length. The 59ft Outremer 5X has same carrying capacity as the Lagoon 450 (at a hefty price difference). Its waterline and sail plan makes it faster.

smj · 10-03-2019, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

I would suggest 99% of sailing catamarans have displacement hulls which travel through the water not on top of it. Skinnier hulls sink further and increase water friction more then a wider hull, for the same load. The way skinny hulled boat owners who want more trappings on their boat compensate is to extend the hulls to increase load capacity and at the same time increase water line length. The 59ft Outremer 5X has same carrying capacity as the Lagoon 450 (at a hefty price difference). Its waterline and sail plan makes it faster.

The 59’ Outremer also weighs less than the Lagoon 45.

44'cruisingcat · 10-03-2019, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I see, like a perfoormance RV...

Using your car analogy, you seem to think your choice is limited to F1 cars or Winnebagos.

You really seem to have no clue whatsoever.

This is a racing boat:

https://youtu.be/FAOP2svKJgg

If you think that is the only choice other than a condomaran, (to use your term) you really should give up forums and get out on the water.

There's a whole spectrum of boats out there, really. Get outdoors and have a look. You'll be amazed.

Sand crab · 10-03-2019, 13:26

I see the point CatNewBee is trying to make by pointing out the extremes. Your optimal boat would be a balancing act somewhere in the middle depending on your needs and goals.

It's just like vehicles. I've owned 3 Porsches, a 57 Hudson Hornet and a 34' RV. All extremes but all kinda cool.

And I still ride my bicycle like today.

smj · 10-03-2019, 14:16

[QUOTE=Sand crab;2844720]I see the point CatNewBee is trying to make by pointing out the extremes. Your optimal boat would be a balancing act somewhere in the middle depending on your needs and goals.

It's just like vehicles. I've owned 3 Porsches, a 57 Hudson Hornet and a 34' RV. All extremes but all kinda cool.

And I still ride my bicycle like

Is the bike frame carbon fiber or aluminum? Because you know..........[emoji13]
Yes, different cats are designed for different purposes. Some are designed primarily for comfort and the charter cat manufacturers do a great job of building them. Others are designed more towards performance, and here again many fine ones built.

tp12 · 10-03-2019, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I see, like a perfoormance RV...

Errrr, no. Not at all like that.

A Lagoon is like an RV. A performance cruiser more like an Audi RS6 or BMW M5. Which leaves room for the racing cat - F1.

Dave_S · 10-03-2019, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj

Is the bike frame carbon fiber or aluminum? Because you know..........[emoji13]

Don't buy a carbon fibre bike, soon as there is a puff of wind they all flip over.

Come on CatNewBe, your pulling our legs ? You can't tell me you don't know all this. :-)

Sand crab · 10-03-2019, 15:28

I guess the Hudson would be one of those crazy homebuilds. You know, what were they thinking?

My current bike is aluminum. I had a carbon fiber bike but it blew away in a Force 1 wind.

CatNewBee · 11-03-2019, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tp12

Errrr, no. Not at all like that.

A Lagoon is like an RV. A performance cruiser more like an Audi RS6 or BMW M5. Which leaves room for the racing cat - F1.

no, its like a BMW M5 towing a camper. Its faster than a Winebago, you can sleep in it on a campsite, but it is not that comfy...

Performance cruiser are stil RVs on the water. Its a comparison of a boxy class a of a RV to a smaller and faster camper van, you can call the camper van a performance RV. Production cats and performance cruiser do not compare like a RV to a sports car, sports cars are not made for sleeping inside.

And the difference between a lagoon and a outremar or catana is like the difference of a class c camper to a camper van, the van is faster, corner easier, smaller inside and more light weight, but less comfy for long time cruising with less carryng capacity. if you put 1000lb load on both, you barely will notice it on the first one, the van will probably loose its performance advantages.

The outramars and catanas are maybe 10..15% faster when not loaded and they point 5° higher upwind thanks to the daggerboards. The difference is not that big as you may think.

44'cruisingcat · 11-03-2019, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

no, its like a BMW M5 towing a camper. Its faster than a Winebago, you can sleep in it on a campsite, but it is not that comfy...

And you say that based on exactly how much experience cruising on a performance cat?

Just FYI, our bed has a full queen size 300mm thick 100% latex mattress. From a bedding store, not cheap foam from a cutting place like some production builders use.

Does yours?

CatNewBee · 11-03-2019, 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

And you say that based on exactly how much experience cruising on a performance cat?

Just FYI, our bed has a full queen size 300mm thick 100% latex mattress. From a bedding store, not cheap foam from a cutting place like some production builders use.

Does yours?

Yes, 2,10m x almost 2.0m in square, custom built to our needs, one piece mattress, but who cares king size or queen size, we sleep very well...

(we removed the small side shelf and the angled cut on the foot of the berth to make it full width and square, much better!)

tp12 · 11-03-2019, 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

no, its like a BMW M5 towing a camper. Its faster than a Winebago, you can sleep in it on a campsite, but it is not that comfy...

Performance cruiser are stil RVs on the water. Its a comparison of a boxy class a of a RV to a smaller and faster camper van, you can call the camper van a performance RV. Production cats and performance cruiser do not compare like a RV to a sports car, sports cars are not made for sleeping inside.

And the difference between a lagoon and a outremar or catana is like the difference of a class c camper to a camper van, the van is faster, corner easier, smaller inside and more light weight, but less comfy for long time cruising with less carryng capacity. if you put 1000lb load on both, you barely will notice it on the first one, the van will probably loose its performance advantages.

The outramars and catanas are maybe 10..15% faster when not loaded and they point 5° higher upwind thanks to the daggerboards. The difference is not that big as you may think.

To borrow your phrasing; No, this is wishful thinking. It's not lost on any of us that you own a Lagoon.... Your own positioning of the various offerings is biased to make your own purchase look faster than it is. I'm sorry to say it's a delusion; this is your unchecked ego talking and not realistic.

You need to get more experience on cats other than your own, and take your blinkers off, and understand that you own a very nice, very comfortable boat that couldn't lay a glove on a performance boat for pace. It really is that simple. You've got multiple, experienced people telling you this.

Why you feel the need to keep on down this road I'll never know. You own a very nice boat! If you're not happy with not owning a performance cat then please, sell your Lagoon and get a performance cat. You'll have to go bigger and/or deal with a smaller payload but you'll get the pace you seem so keen to delude yourself into believing you have. Crikey, give it a rest already.

CatNewBee · 11-03-2019, 10:32

I am happy with my Lagoon Catamaran and I do know the Catanas and the Outremars too, why are you so upset?

I checked them out and opted then for the Lagoon for many reason. I am not saying Lagoons are faster, but the difference is not that big as you think.