Survey valuation versus typical sale price?

[FollowingCs]

Does anyone know the typical relationship between a survey value placed on a boat, and the actual typical sale price? The survey is a thorough pre-purchase survey.

- Ray
~ Following Cs ~

[Stu Jackson]

There aren't any such animals: typical sale price or survey value.

Each boat is different. Each situation is different.

My surveyor, in 1998, looked at the boat, and then agreed that the price I agreed with was fine. He also included a phrase like: The extremely good condition of this boat warrants the price agreed upon.

Not every deal will be like that.

[barnakiel]

A survey normally finds the technical condition of a boat. A valuation is quite another matter - it is done by (preferably) a financial adviser, planner or someone else versed in valuation of things.

A survey may form a part of a valuation, in a bigger project.

If you are buying a small boat for immediate use, the value is the market value adjusted for the condition of the boat.

b.

[belizesailor]

Many surveys do include a valuation, but it does not appear that most surveyors put much effort into it and thus it typically has little or no correlation to market value. Many I've seen are for replacement value versus market value (two very different things).

Best to review market data to establish a market value. Services like Buc.net collect such data (actual closed sales). Also reviews of list prices can give you an idea of what sellers hope to get for the boat (review enough to weed out those with unrealistic expectations).

[AD28]

If you get a good surveyor, his evaluation should drive the actual sale price.

[FollowingCs]

Thanks for the various viewpoints.

I am attempting to buy a boat from a friend/mentor. It is an older boat, where only 16 were made of that model year, and only 1 sold in the last few years. Its a little difficult to agree on a price between friends.

If the range is $300k to $350k, the seller hears $350k, where the buyer hears $285k. That's a big swing.

We (the friend and I) thought the surveyor valuation price minus the broker commission I'm saving him would be sufficient. I think we are going to be in the ball park either way. I'm going to talk with the surveyor next to find his valuation method, and what he all includes, but I ALWAYS like to get the feedback of this experienced forum.



Thanks again,
~ Following Cs ~

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by FollowingCs

Thanks for the various viewpoints.

I am attempting to buy a boat from a friend/mentor. It is an older boat, where only 16 were made of that model year, and only 1 sold in the last few years. Its a little difficult to agree on a price between friends.

If the range is $300k to $350k, the seller hears $350k, where the buyer hears $285k. That's a big swing.

We (the friend and I) thought the surveyor valuation price minus the broker commission I'm saving him would be sufficient. I think we are going to be in the ball park either way. I'm going to talk with the surveyor next to find his valuation method, and what he all includes, but I ALWAYS like to get the feedback of this experienced forum.



Thanks again,
~ Following Cs ~

Hate doing deals with friends. Too much emotion on both sides. If you get into arbitrary valuations, someone is likely to decide after the fact that the valuation was wrong and then there will be hurt feelings.

As you've said, there aren't a lot on sale, so not much comparable data. This is much different from an F-150 where there are thousands turning over every month and a base price can be established pretty well and then adjusted for condition... Even then it's not uncommon if you shop around to get prices that vary by 20-30% from average.

Decide how much you are willing to offer and offer that with a consolation that if it's too low, you understand if he needs to put it out there for others. If that offends him, he wanted to be offended.

[Dave22q]

A surveyor is not a valuation expert. That is not what you hire him for. You might be a lot better off if you can hire a good broker specifically so set a 'fair price'. Key emphasis on good. You and your friend could split the cost.

[rassabossa]

If the boat is older than about 15 years, the condition is the more important factor in pricing. I looked at a lot of boats (and you should too) and even the ones that were listed as very good condition were anything but. I ended up with a cat that was about 10k more than I wanted to spend but the condition was so much better. The surveyor compared other cats of the same size/year and this one was at the high end of the market. He noted "this boat shows like a boat that is 3 years old, not the 23 years it is".

[bruceb]

A surveyor has to wear several different hats to continue to be employed, and valuing a limited production boat is already difficult. Don't expect the impossible! A good surveyor should be expected to provide you with a list of needed repairs/replacements with an estimated local cost that you should use to compare prices/conditions of equal boats. Do your own research on similar boats and get a couple of different brokers opinions also, and I think you will have an idea of a fair price.
B

[jrbogie]

the price that the seller agrees to accept is the value of the boat. i like these easy ones.

[hamburking]

My personal experience is the survey value is usually at least DOUBLE the actual selling price.

[verkerkbr]

Important to have a surveyor which has a good technical view on the condition of the Boat. And he must have done a lot of valuations.

It is recommended that the surveyor gives a price-range minimum and a maximum market-value. If you take the average of these values, that is about the real market value.

One-off's are very difficult the valuate. Nowadays people looking for Yachts from well know builders and designers.

[jamhass]

When we bought our boat, we had agreed on a price (subject to survey ) before the survey, having considered prices of competing boats. We then negotiated down based on the survey results. Both parties were happy with the results.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by hamburking

My personal experience is the survey value is usually at least DOUBLE the actual selling price.

This is the only clear, direct response to the original question that I saw from a quick scan of the replies. I also went through my own various recollections and notes, and can say that most of the surveys I've seen, as as a potential buyer or seller, do not provide a valuation. However, one of the most nefarious types, when provided is, in my opinion, the sort that provides a "cost" or "current replacement value" if the boat were new today. It usually is many multiples of a realistic selling or buying price for the actual used vessel which was the subject of the survey, and is in no way a reflection of any market.