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Old 25-06-2016, 11:45   #31
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Re: Survey valuation versus typical sale price?

Any chance the boat is a Macintosh 47?. There were only 16 built, and we're owned ours for 9 years. I have a decent database on them. Feel free to call if it is. Two ten six six three 8o79.

I'm a real estate appraiser. GOOD surveyors subscribe to soldboats- the backend of yachtworld, for comparable sales. A good surveyor will come up with a true market value for you, if that's in your engagement. Most surveys give a value for insurance purposes.


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Old 25-06-2016, 12:42   #32
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Re: Survey valuation versus typical sale price?

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Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
A lot of surveys are for insurance purposes. The thing is insurance companies would not stay in business very long if they insured boats for double, or more, what the boat was worth. So insurance companies have a vested interest in insuring boats at a value that is at least in the ball park of the value of the boat.

The thing is lots of folks who are paying lot five figures for a boat don't insure them except for liability if it is required (something required in some places); so the survey value of the boat is moot. On the other hand if a boat cost more than say $US100,000 the owner may well insure the boat as the loss would be a big hit. But if you buy a boat for $US100,000 and try and insure it for $US250,000 the insurance company might well decline.

On the other hand the purpose of a lot of surveys is to get a list of potential problems with the boat the buyer and present to the seller so they can say lower the price based on these problems. Often times the surveyor will greatly inflate the cost of dealing with those problems. Not to mention that it is common for the buyer to somewhat ignore problems they can live with. I know plenty of folks in BKH who buy ice every day and put it in a non working fridge to keep food cold. Same goes for new sails. Many boats never leave the harbor so the running rigging may be a disaster but sails are never raised. How many times have we seen an outboard powering a boat with a non working inboard?

I would bet in most cases a surveyor by talking to the client knows if they want a realistic value for insurance or something else.
Sort of. Overvaluation can produce fraud, or at least the temptation, but the additional "agreed value" is covered by the premium addition if there is coverage. Probably some risk of fraud is automatically built into the premium, but not those doubled numbers, particularly if combined with a intentional destructive event. I also would not be surprised to see a reasonable market value or a actual cost clause that assists the carriers even in policies with agreed value as the basis for the hull coverage. But then I've not insured a vessel for a long time.

On the other side of the equation is the honest but avaricious (can one be both?) owner who wants to see a maximum value for a boat they own but do not have hull insurance. Surveyors have ways of kiting this number without quite misstating any facts.

There was an old song that said something about, "Its all in the game."
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Old 25-06-2016, 13:15   #33
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Re: Survey valuation versus typical sale price?

Most valuations are indeed for insurance purposes. It is important for the Insurer to place a real market value on the Boat. That is not what the Owner has invested or paid for the Boat, but the real market value.

This is not only important for an Agreed Value Policy, but the market Value must also be estimated in case of a Total Loss of the Boat.

Independent qualified Yacht Surveyors have a good view on the market and do these valuations every day.
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Old 25-06-2016, 13:31   #34
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Re: Survey valuation versus typical sale price?

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My personal experience is the survey value is usually at least DOUBLE the actual selling price.
Then you hired an irresponsible lousy surveyor.
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Old 25-06-2016, 13:35   #35
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Re: Survey valuation versus typical sale price?

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My impression is surveyors $ value are quite high. maybe they mean replacement value. Check the wording.
SAMS surveyors are required to quote a "Fair Market Value" and a "Replacement Cost" in the survey reports. The replacement cost is a number required by the insurance companies but I've never received a (my opinion) valid reason for requiring that.
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Old 25-06-2016, 13:38   #36
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Re: Survey valuation versus typical sale price?

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The question is are surveyors qualified to estimate market value. I doubt that most surveyors have access to a database tracking closed sales.
The good ones do pay the $600/yr. for soldboats.com access
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