Suggestions between 2 cat options

[riki]

Hi folks.
Those of you that read my previous 3ds might remember about some considerations and plans about liveaboard that I had. But I’ve been thinking a lot, made some mathematics and I arrived to the conclusion that I have 2 options: stretch the budget or shorten the boat.
The first option is not a smart one because investing so much in a boat that most of the time will be in the marina or for short trips, since we decided to forget the liveaboard option, doesn’t make any sense for me, or I just can’t afford a toy of this price.
So the second option sounds like the way.
I saw a Fontaine Pajot Tobago 35: nice boat, right size but with 1,85 cm (me) a bit sacrificing.
Next month i am planning to see a Fountaine Pajot Maldives 32: slightly smaller on the paper but with the pop up rooftop it gets more than 2mt. The 32 is much cheaper and in my marina also the fees ar considerably cheaper.
What would you suggest? Do you think that 3ft would worth 30k difference?
Would also like to hear if anyone has any feedback having sailed both.
Thanx.
Cheers

[Bean Counter]

Only sailed a Tobago 35, chartered for a week in Belize in 2004 - thought it was a terrific cat for its size, it sailed very nicely and was plenty comfortable for two. The downsides were 1. some softness in the hull decks forward of the salon, 2. Access to engines and engines not separated from cabins, bit oily aroma, but you get that in almost all the older designs of this size and monos. 3 Fridge was pretty poor, but easily rectified. I am 6ft1" do not recall any height issues.

[riki]

Thank you for your answer.
What you say it’s mostly what I heard around, for both of them. About the 32 also that it’s very fast for the size but prone to capsize if pushed to the limit.
About the 35 I don’t like the oil smell that was noticeable in the one I saw. Not a problem in the 32 being 1 outboard.

[Rapanui]

We have had a Maldives and now have an Athena (slightly bigger and later than the Tobago).
The Maldives is a fantastic boat and sails extremely well. We cruised the English Channel down to South Brittany as a family of 5 and I never felt worried about capsize, but they can, as can a Tobago. Both require a measure of seamanship by the crew to stay safe. The only capsize instances I know of are running down wind with too much sail and they dug the bows in and turned over - basically pitchpoled. The stern berths are cosy doubles, the fwd berths decent singles and they are 4 real cabins. The pop top works well but you need the right weather! Main weakness is lack of water capacity 30 gals and storage. A decent high thrust 4 stroke Yamaha 9.9 will push it at 6 knots, but unless it is very calm, it is always quicker to sail, upwind or down. Put on davits and solar panels and it will be a great weekend and up to 3 weeks cruiser. Build a trolley and lift out and launch are easy and cheap. We built a trolley where you could jack up a Maldives onto it and move it around. Take the outboard home for the winter and maintenance is easy and cheap.

We sold the Maldives to get more comfort in the Athena which is basically an enlarged Tobago. The difference with the Tobago is that it is more comfortable, can carry more water and supplies and you can live aboard for decent periods. Still sails very well and very sought after. The downsides are that it has inboard diesels which require more maintenance and you will probably have to pay for a yard to lift the boat.

Both are older boats so there will usually be continuing refurbishment. One point to watch out for either is the headlining. The adhesive used by the factory goes brittle and the headling starts to detach. Redoing the headlining is a massive task and really needs a professional and lots of hours which is expensive. I know!
Given the current prices for a Tobago are not significantly less than an Athena, consider the latter. They hold up well, particularly the interiors, far better than the earlier generations like the Maldives and Tobago. They will of course cost more to berth and maintain but could be livabord if that is your eventual intention.

[riki]

Hi rapanui, thanks for taking time to answer, very informative.
The Athena was one of my first and favorite options, however the price to get a good one is out of my reach.
The 32 is actually the one that obviously would give me the biggest “room” for upgrades and repairs and consequently peace of mind; the tobago still an option but I really wonder if it does worth the financial effort to get slightly (maybe) more.
Have you been on a Tobago? Could you really feel the difference in terms of space compared to the Maldives? We are 3 and not planning for too long trips so storage won’t be a big issue.
Cheers

[Rapanui]

I have been aboard a Tobago but not sailed one. I have met several owners in the Med who love them.
From what you say, the Maldives would seem to fit your current sailing ambitions. You don't say where abouts you sail, but we found the Maldives good in temperate climates, maybe not ideal in a hot climate because of the sloping front windows. You will need to be pretty handy to fix and renovate as this is a 30 year old boat now. They hold their price, infact we sold ours at a significant profit after 10 years ownership if you discount the work and expenditure on renovations. The big jobs we did were introducing a fridge and oven re-arranging the galley arrangement, new front windows, solar, davits (essential as stowing a inflatable on the foredeck proved problematic), LED lights, and re-lining the saloon and cabins. There appears to be one structural weakness, the aft end of the starboard keel does not have the same support from internal frames as the port and hence the hull deflects when you take the ground. I just over laminated polyester and glass inside the hull around the afte end of the keel box and that stiffened it up. Pretty trivial if messy job. If the boat still has Amiot deck hardware then you will find that the main car and the jib cars probably need attention or replacement.

[cuffy]

Had a Maldives before my current Mahe.
Excellent sailing boat, put a square top main and a Genoa, new tracks on coachroof, and it sailed very well down to 6-8 knts wind. Very enjoyable and responsive with regular speeds in mid teens.
Didn't get on with the outboard, 15hp 4 stroke with high thrust prop, reverse nearly non existent!
Agree with comments above. Had starboard keel strengthened as well.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00027780884527
Been living aboard Mahe for nearly 2 years now and more civilised! Twin diesels being the best upgrade. Performance under sail not as good as Maldives even with upgrades to sail area.

[akprb]

Why bother with a cat in the first place?

Cats get their advantage from waterline length and even at that “sailing” a cat for recreation is like driving a bread truck for sport. (That ought to light a few folks up).

Seriously a 40’ racer/cruiser will be fun to sail, easy on the budget, cheaper slip and haulout, plenty comfortable for short trips and long.

Time will go by and when ready to move aboard you’ll be able to afford the Catana 471 or Lagoon 50 you really want.

Just a thought ;-)

[cuffy]

Originally Posted by akprb

Why bother with a cat in the first place?

Cats get their advantage from waterline length and even at that “sailing” a cat for recreation is like driving a bread truck for sport. (That ought to light a few folks up).

Seriously a 40’ racer/cruiser will be fun to sail, easy on the budget, cheaper slip and haulout, plenty comfortable for short trips and long.

Time will go by and when ready to move aboard you’ll be able to afford the Catana 471 or Lagoon 50 you really want.

Just a thought ;-)

Sailed a Maldives a lot??

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by akprb

Why bother with a cat in the first place?

Cats get their advantage from waterline length and even at that “sailing” a cat for recreation is like driving a bread truck for sport. (That ought to light a few folks up).

Seriously a 40’ racer/cruiser will be fun to sail, easy on the budget, cheaper slip and haulout, plenty comfortable for short trips and long.

Time will go by and when ready to move aboard you’ll be able to afford the Catana 471 or Lagoon 50 you really want.

Just a thought ;-)

As a comparison we were in our 32ft cat our friends behind /next to us in a 42 Hunter, we had 20+ knots of wind behind us for the entire 72 mile hop. While they rolled, pitched, corkscrewed all over, we had a nice pleasant enjoyable sail. At the end we went out to eat and went swimming, they went to bed, so wore out they didnt leave the boat the next day. Having a heavy 50ft cruiser behind as we came Into Portugal, we watched them for 24 hours roll all over the place, I was glad to be in a cat even with its shorter waterline length.
Nothing wrong with a short cat, some of them are a blast to sail, and still more comfy at anchor then a much larger mono..

[akprb]

I knew that comment would get things fired up.

No, not a Maldives but a bunch of others in that range and up.

If given the choice as far as pure going out for a sail I’d lean towards the J40 over a 32 some on foot cruising cat.

Or most any production 40 ;-)

[onavegador]

The oily smell in the Tobago is due to the Diesel Tank under the cockpit as this tank is intruded to its place from the starboard aft cabin during the building. As often water penetrates from the cockpit and becomes oily from diesel coming out of the tank when filling up. May be you can install a closure between the compartment under the cockpit and the starboard aft cabin.
The sailing abilities of the Tobago are not the best a she is "prereefed by the shipyard". This saying is coming up as the previous built Maldives was for some sailors overcanvassed and there have been some incidents on charter boats.


For me, so far, a cat is not a boat for weekend sailing but as you ask about the difference between the Tobago and the Maldives I would prefer the Maldives as she sails great and with the tillers you are lucky to sail her. She is comfortable, has with the pop up roof standing head room and a not to big O/B motor is good to handle. As she sails with the lightest wind you just use the motor for docking as long if find that necessary.
Good luck
James ak onavegador

[Kita]

Originally Posted by riki

Thank you for your answer.
What you say it’s mostly what I heard around, for both of them. About the 32 also that it’s very fast for the size but prone to capsize if pushed to the limit.
About the 35 I don’t like the oil smell that was noticeable in the one I saw. Not a problem in the 32 being 1 outboard.

I think you can do something with the smell if you really set your mind to it & research what's going on. ..but consider this,a small Diesel with a good alternator will produce much more power electrically than an outboard at a much cheaper price. so if you're planning on being on the hook a lot make sure that you have enough solar...

[sailingchiro]

Beancounter, was that cat 'SmilinWide'? We sailed that boat out of Placencia Belize. It was for sale for $99k 10 years ago.
The one thing I didn't like about Tobago is the raised salon sole to the sink and freezer. I kept hitting my head.

Another thought, we have Lagoon TPI 37'. Absolutely love this boat. IMHO, It sails better than the Topago. Have not hit my head. Has one of the biggest heads I have ever seen on a boat. Engines are inside. Sails strong. Have seen low teens on blustery days. Loves 8-9knots.Great boat to entertain. And yes, there is no comparison between monohull and catamaran during the 95% time you are on it, AT ANCHOR.

We purchased our boat from a bank foreclosure and spent gobs to rebuild it to our liking. I have seen the Lagoon 37 going for $70k. We spent ALOT less. I would tell you but you would be mad at me.

[riki]

Hello folks,
thank you all for your comments. At this point i am 80% oriented to the Maldives because it does really better fit my needs and pockets. In a few days i will see the first one and looks like another two worth the visit, one suggested from a member of the forum.
Will keep you updated about how things evolve.
Cheers.