Spinnaker - Symmetric v's Asymmetric

[Pirate Pete]

This duel wing principle without the main would be similar to a symmetrical spinnaker without main. The chute would probable be easier to handle and if the wind changed angle the chute could be rotated to lee to accommodate the new wind angle relatively easy compared to a wing on wing configuration that forced you to stay dead down wind.

[Barra]

I have found wing on wing to be much overrated (at least on my boat) due to sweptback spreaders the main can only be let out so far so below 130 its losing efficiency in a hurry. Twin headsails not as efficient as a sym spin but probably better for ease of use in the trades. Still hoping the parasailor will be the best of both worlds but cant report on this till May

[nhschneider]

I guess it depends on what kind of cruising you do. On our first blue-water trip (Mexico-Hawaii-Alaska-California) we had both our symmetrical and asymmetrical on board. Whereas we had many sequential days of downwind sailing, the symmetrical required too much attention for our liking and the possibility of dealing with a wrap in trade wind seas was not something to which we looked forward.

On this trip (California to Australia - so far) we left the symmetrical spinnaker at home.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by nhschneider

I guess it depends on what kind of cruising you do. On our first blue-water trip (Mexico-Hawaii-Alaska-California) we had both our symmetrical and asymmetrical on board. Whereas we had many sequential days of downwind sailing, the symmetrical required too much attention for our liking and the possibility of dealing with a wrap in trade wind seas was not something to which we looked forward.

On this trip (California to Australia - so far) we left the symmetrical spinnaker at home.

Fair winds and calm seas.

What config did you use for the long distance downwind sailing and how did you find it?

[nhschneider]

Originally Posted by Barra

What config did you use for the long distance downwind sailing and how did you find it?

Since our 150% genoa is slightly over 800 square feet (about 75 square meters), we would most often pole it out to windward and run wing-on-wing. It was okay as we made the run from Banderas Bay in Mexico to Hiva Oa in the Marquesas (3,000+ nautical miles) in 18 days, 4 hours. We had similar times for other passages in the South Pacific. Also, we felt comfortable leaving the pole up at night whereas we would always douse the spinnaker at dusk.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[TheTeelSea]

Originally Posted by delatbabel

Gonna tell you a different story.

You already have a screecher? Good on you. It's a reaching sail just like an asy, not that good dead downwind as others have commented.

Get a staysail. If your mast has room for a second pole fitting, get one of those and a second pole. Pole the genoa out one side, and the staysail out the other side and you have a much better wing on wing solution than either an asy or a symmmetric spinnaker. Much more stable than going wing and wing with either main/genoa or main/screecher.

I have an asy and it's great for wind angles between about 100 and 150, but for dead downwind I put it away and use the two-pole configuration.

Here's mine (added as an attachment). Note that the main is packed away, just running with the two headsails.

delatbabel,

It look's good but how does it handle when the wind hits a quick 30 to 40 knots of wind ? On my shoots you just break the sheets and let fly? You have two poles to deal with and not much time. Thanks, Richard

[Pirate Pete]

Barra
Let me know how your Parasailor goes. I have been reading another thread and some think its great and others think its a glorified symmetrical spinnaker with a big price tag.
Agree with your comments about swept back spreaders making it ineffective after about 130 degrees.
Pete

[Jimbo485]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

There's no reason not to run screacher and jib wing-and-wing...

Exactly! We also do this DDW because there is more sail area than our little kite. We don't use poles, simply not needed with the beam of a cat, so if a squall appears, we just furl both the screacher and the jib.

VMG is better at under 10 winds true wind speed by downwind tacking. But at higher than 15 knots true, we forget that. 17 days Galapagos to Marquesas on a little 40 footer.

The screacher is our favourite and most used sail in the trades.

[davecalvert]

How about a code 0 on a furler? These sails have much more area than screechers, use the same attachment points of a spinnaker, and with a continuous line furler, are very easy to use. The size is between a spinnaker and screecher but, much more efficient on reaches than similar size spinnakers.
We had an asymmetrical spinnaker on our Belize 43 but, rarely used it. With just my wife as crew, it was usually not worth the hassle.
Now we have sold this spinnaker and are installing a bow sprit for the Code 0. The sail area of the max size asymmetrical spinnaker was about 1,600 sq. ft.
The new code 0 will be about 1,100 sq. ft. This can also be used wing n wing by bringing the lazy sheet to the breast cleat on the opposite side of the mainsail.
When turning off the wind, the Code 0 can just be unrolled and the genoa furled. This is quick and safe as no one needs to go forward to rig up the down wind sail.
Dave

[tamicatana]

Mr Calvert: in light air, does the Code Zero sail as high as a screacher will?

[davecalvert]

No, The Code 0 sail sheets around the shrouds, to the spinnaker blocks aft. Screechers usually trim inside the shrouds with a block farther inboard. Because of this, the Code 0, with the wider sheeting angle, will not trim close to the wind. But, these sails are usually built with a triradial cut and low stretch Code 0 cloth. This helps them to maintain their designed shape on tight angles so, close reaching is part of their range.
These are great sails for reaching from above the beam to about 140 degrees true wind angles.
Dave

[tamicatana]

Mr Calvert: Thanks for responding. Would you be kind enough to share what's in your Belize's sail quiver?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by davecalvert

No, The Code 0 sail sheets around the shrouds, to the spinnaker blocks aft. Screechers usually trim inside the shrouds with a block farther inboard. Because of this, the Code 0, with the wider sheeting angle, will not trim close to the wind. But, these sails are usually built with a triradial cut and low stretch Code 0 cloth. This helps them to maintain their designed shape on tight angles so, close reaching is part of their range.
These are great sails for reaching from above the beam to about 140 degrees true wind angles.
Dave

This is why I suggested a symmetrical spinnaker to the OP. They already have reaching sails. Seems unneccesary to get another one. Sometimes you want to sail deeper, and a symmetrical spinnker will work all the way from around 120' true to DDW. Ridiculously easy to gybe too.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

This is why I suggested a symmetrical spinnaker to the OP. They already have reaching sails. Seems unneccesary to get another one. Sometimes you want to sail deeper, and a symmetrical spinnker will work all the way from around 120' true to DDW. Ridiculously easy to gybe too.

Exactly OP is looking for a deep downwind sail - symm spin or twin headsails (including screcher and jib and all the other combos) the only real answer. Then its just a trade off between ease of use and performance as to which way to go....

[Barra]

Originally Posted by Jimbo485

Exactly! We also do this DDW because there is more sail area than our little kite. We don't use poles, simply not needed with the beam of a cat, so if a squall appears, we just furl both the screacher and the jib.

VMG is better at under 10 winds true wind speed by downwind tacking. But at higher than 15 knots true, we forget that. 17 days Galapagos to Marquesas on a little 40 footer.

The screacher is our favourite and most used sail in the trades.

Fully agree about the gybing point- over 20 odd knots TWS the sea state can come into play against the better VMG of downwind gybing with assym or screecher. Its just more comfortable to sail deeper and forget the gybing offshore sometimes