Performance catamarans 40-48 foot range

[smj]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Balance has at least made the effort to put both hatches as well as a ducted ventilation system there, which is fantastic to see.

No idea how well it works in practice though, but absolutely it's better than no ventialtion system.

As you said, ventilation is one of the most important factors, not only for bunks, but for the whole boat.

Absolutely, especially in a hot humid climate.

[poseidon2027]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Outremer you pay a lot for the name and the quality problems raising, for this amount of money not acceptable

Aventura not really...vision i don't know.

If just the two of you a 2-4old Neel 43 or 45 trimaran. Very well priced and fast. No new boat, let the former owner sort out the quality problems, for the price they are acceptable and can be fixed. Hard to get more comfortable performance for the amount they cost. 43 is 350+50 for extras, assume they will be 300 and most quality problems fixed when 3 years old. Assume they spend 50k additional on that.
Its mostly fit and finish stuff that sucks.

I took a look at the Neels but did not like their layouts. The middle hull is basically the same interior as most monohulls which the wife feels really claustrophobic. It just didn't suit us. Thanks for the suggestions though as the price is attractive.

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Balance has at least made the effort to put both hatches as well as a ducted ventilation system there, which is fantastic to see.

No idea how well it works in practice though, but absolutely it's better than no ventilation system.

As you said, ventilation is one of the most important factors, not only for bunks, but for the whole boat.

I see the two hatches but it still feels too claustrophobic. I wont totally rule it out until I step inside, but I have been in cats with raised beds like that and we didn't like it. "But maybe that one is different".

[dougaljackson]

Originally Posted by poseidon2027

That's good to know, thank you for the information. So it seems that the Vision 444 and Seawinds are the middle ground between the condos (FPs, Lagoons and Leopards) and performance (Outremer, HH, Balance).

If that's the case and if I can find any decent reviews on the Vision 444 that may at the top of my list. I cant seem to find any reviews or anything on the Visions though but with my long time frame that should certainly change. Definitely making me excited though, while I'm not experienced enough to get one of the best performance cats, I do want some liveliness.

You've probably seen this, but the Vision YouTube page has comprehensive walkthroughs. Not as helpful as an unbiased review (heaps of those around ), but does show a lot of interesting design features.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by poseidon2027

Thanks everyone for the feedbacks. I didn't expect this thread to get this much action but definitely glad for all the discussions.

My favorite is probably the balance 442 however the wife and I agree that the elevated bed is a no go. It is just way to high and we plan to use the bed for other activities other then sleep and being a few feet from the ceiling would be a total hindrance. Might seem petty but it is what it is.

The seawind has the same bed problem but besides that I cant stand the dual helm looking through the saloon. Seems like a terrible design.

In my research I have come across the Aventura 44 and Vision 444. Those perfectly fit what we are looking for. My only concern would be I don't know these brands so I have no idea about their quality. If anyone has any information that would be really great. Also I believe they are kit boats so I don't think ide be able to put it together myself so these unfortunately will probably be eliminated from my list.

In the end, the condomarans might be enough for us. The plan is to sail the Caribbean for about a year then decide if we want to continue (obviously it'll be up to her). They say buy the boat you need now, not the one you may need. So for now that is what we need.

Now I just need to decide on a size. Its just the two of us so a 40 sound like its enough, but maybe we'll look up to 45 for a little better performance and limit the hobby-horsing.

In case I do have more money than I'm projecting maybe ill look into the Outremers, balance (if they jut put the bed aft the height issue would be solved), and a few others.

Outremer you pay a lot for the name and the quality problems raising, for this amount of movey not acceptable

Aventura not really...

If just the two of you a 2-4old Neel 43 or 45 trimaran. Very well priced and fast. No new boat, let the former owner sort out the quality problems, for the price they are acceptable and can be fixed.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by poseidon2027

I see the two hatches but it still feels too claustrophobic. I wont totally rule it out until I step inside, but I have been in cats with raised beds like that and we didn't like it. "But maybe that one is different".

The hatches and the ducted ventilation system is still a different factor from being claustrophobic.

I agree that the raised beds are not my first choice either and if you didn't like the others you probably won't like the Balance version either.

But I understand why it's becoming even more common now.

Even on a much larger boat, although there is more space above your head the beds are often still very high off the cabin sole with this type of layout which may feel a bit weird for some or not be as conducive to activities other than sleeping for others.

Here's the Gunboat 90 as an example.

[Sos]

Originally Posted by dougaljackson

You've probably seen this, but the Vision YouTube page has comprehensive walkthroughs. Not as helpful as an unbiased review (heaps of those around ), but does show a lot of interesting design features.

Looking at those videos, that is a nice looking boat and seems to sail well.
Nice layout, sheltered helm and good cockpit

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

For us ventilation is one of the most important factors in bunk placement. I’m sure the forward bunk would get better ventilation than aft? Not sure about most bridgedeck bunks, but ours has hatches that open up to the anchor locker which in turn opens up to the trampoline area. The ventilation is great, even when raining.

The anchor locker stink doesn’t bother you in that case?

I can remember my monohulls used to have that stink up in the v berth.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chotu

The anchor locker stink doesn’t bother you in that case?



I can remember my monohulls used to have that stink up in the v berth.

On the starboard side is the anchor locker and port side the propane locker, no odor from either. Could be that the anchor locker has a near constant air flow thus keeping it dry?

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by poseidon2027

I took a look at the Neels but did not like their layouts. The middle hull is basically the same interior as most monohulls which the wife feels really claustrophobic. It just didn't suit us. Thanks for the suggestions though as the price is attractive.

Did you actually look at those boats? The entire bridgedeck is all living space above the water. That is really different from the mono claustrophobic feel and actually different from most tris. There is limited accommodation in the forepeaks of the hulls with the rest being dedicated to mechanical and storage. I'm not a Neel fan but just pointing out that they are very different than monos. This is the N43.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

On the starboard side is the anchor locker and port side the propane locker, no odor from either. Could be that the anchor locker has a near constant air flow thus keeping it dry?

Guess I would have to smell it to understand it. Ha ha

For me, it doesn’t matter if everything is dry or not. I still smell the stink. My anchor tackle is always dry when it is up. I mean, that’s not when you are laying in the berth anyway. You are laying in it when the anchor tackle is underwater. But, the little bit that was underwater at a different Anchorage, it picks up stink. There’s things growing on it. It may dry out, but it still stinks. At least in my opinion.

I’m surprised it doesn’t bother you or become an issue. I think it would for me. I’m probably oversensitive to lots of airborne whatever.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Did you actually look at those boats? The entire bridgedeck is all living space above the water. That is really different from the mono claustrophobic feel and actually different from most tris. There is limited accommodation in the forepeaks of the hulls with the rest being dedicated to mechanical and storage. I'm not a Neel fan but just pointing out that they are very different than monos. This is the N43.

Exactly and the 45 is even better with 2 rooms above sea level and not down in the cave. But beds are 195cm.
Only the forepeak guest cabin is like a monohull cave.
the problem with the 43 is the one head on top or is there a 2nd down in the middle hull?, advantages to 45 the beds above are longer and can stick your feet out, the day bed is great for long passages.
Charter the 45 and test it

[Sand crab]

Oops, I see my pics didn't load on edit. So here's the N43 again.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Guess I would have to smell it to understand it. Ha ha



For me, it doesn’t matter if everything is dry or not. I still smell the stink. My anchor tackle is always dry when it is up. I mean, that’s not when you are laying in the berth anyway. You are laying in it when the anchor tackle is underwater. But, the little bit that was underwater at a different Anchorage, it picks up stink. There’s things growing on it. It may dry out, but it still stinks. At least in my opinion.



I’m surprised it doesn’t bother you or become an issue. I think it would for me. I’m probably oversensitive to lots of airborne whatever.

Been living on the boat for 3 years and neither my wife or I notice an odor from the anchor locker. Just stuck my head in there, no odor!

[Sand crab]

That's weird, now my pics are back in my previous post.

[Dave_S]

Another advantage to performance cats that is not always considered.

I have a Schionning Waterline 1480

Monday I motored a bit over 40nm (no sails up) with heavy growth at I'd guess close to max recommended boat weight. I have 2xHonda 40hp outboards and ran both motors the whole way as I don't have the dagger boards in at the moment and I was navigating channels and wanted the control in some strong breeze with a few squalls around.... Anyway

I don't motor much so I don't have much data on it but I was surprised by the motoring efficiency over a long run. I ran the outboard motors at 4,100 rpm each (max rpm is about 5,300rpm)(4,100 is about the maximum threshold for running in Eco mode). Including 2/3 with the tide and 1/3 against as well as a couple of 6kn speed limited sections otherwise we were at 8 to 10kn SOG and used a combined total of 58lt of fuel for 40.6nm

Remembering
It had heavy growth on the hulls
Close to max recommended weight
Running both motors
Cruising mostly at 9kn SOG

I was quite surprised at how efficiently it ran. Pretty impressed really.