Performance catamarans 40-48 foot range

[poseidon2027]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Exactly and the 45 is even better with 2 rooms above sea level and not down in the cave. But beds are 195cm.
Only the forepeak guest cabin is like a monohull cave.
the problem with the 43 is the one head on top or is there a 2nd down in the middle hull?, advantages to 45 the beds above are longer and can stick your feet out, the day bed is great for long passages.
Charter the 45 and test it

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Oops, I see my pics didn't load on edit. So here's the N43 again.

Ok, I had originally seen the 45 and didnt really like it. The cockpit area is too small and other stuff I didnt like turned me off. I took a look at the 43 and 47 and those are definitely much better. I REALLY want to like them, but I dont know, I dont think they did a good job with the layout. There is no reason they, on the 47 they cant do a standing shower next to the master bedroom. I like how catamarans the owner has an entire hull as a little apt with the bedroom and bathroom. Could be knit-picking and once we actually see it we'll change our mind. We will definitely check this one out at the next boat show. We've got some years so if they fix a few things I dont like, then this will be at the top of my list. Right now I definitely put it in my top 3 though. Thank you for making me take a second look at it.

[poseidon2027]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Another advantage to performance cats that is not always considered.

I have a Schionning Waterline 1480

Monday I motored a bit over 40nm (no sails up) with heavy growth at I'd guess close to max recommended boat weight. I have 2xHonda 40hp outboards and ran both motors the whole way as I don't have the dagger boards in at the moment and I was navigating channels and wanted the control in some strong breeze with a few squalls around.... Anyway

I don't motor much so I don't have much data on it but I was surprised by the motoring efficiency over a long run. I ran the outboard motors at 4,100 rpm each (max rpm is about 5,300rpm)(4,100 is about the maximum threshold for running in Eco mode). Including 2/3 with the tide and 1/3 against as well as a couple of 6kn speed limited sections otherwise we were at 8 to 10kn SOG and used a combined total of 58lt of fuel for 40.6nm

Remembering
It had heavy growth on the hulls
Close to max recommended weight
Running both motors
Cruising mostly at 9kn SOG

I was quite surprised at how efficiently it ran. Pretty impressed really.

That's something my, smarter than me, wife brought up too. Is there any data showing how much more time non-performance cats spend motoring, how much more fuel is used etc.? That would also be interesting to know. Take a 5 day voyage and besides average speed, how much more time does one spend motoring vs. the other and how much fuel is used. Would be interesting data.

[Sand crab]

The Sailing Family is on YouTube. They had an Lagoon 380 and now have an Outremer 51. I know it's apples and kumquats but they crossed the Pacific in 20 days on the Lagoon but only 15 days in the O.

[donradcliffe]

What part of the Pacific? Its a big ocean.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by poseidon2027

That's something my, smarter than me, wife brought up too. Is there any data showing how much more time non-performance cats spend motoring, how much more fuel is used etc.? That would also be interesting to know. Take a 5 day voyage and besides average speed, how much more time does one spend motoring vs. the other and how much fuel is used. Would be interesting data.

My 0.02c

My fuel use is probably nothing very special to the more efficient inboard diesel people. What is special, I think anyway , is the 9kn boat speed (most wouldn't match that speed at that consumption) and that the fuel efficiency was from (usually less efficient) outboards and that I was running both motors all the time (on a passage you would usually just run one motor). The advantage to outboards is you can lift them up out of the water when sailing to reduce the drag. Disadvantage is less manoeuvrability in the marina.

A trip like you mentioned, we sailed around 800nm broken up by stops at islands, and a couple of mainland stops. We motored in and out of anchorages and across a bar only. At one time for about 4 hours we probably would normally have motored but we were making some ground in really light breeze and really didn't care.

We passed many mono's and multi's that were motoring and we were tacking faster upwind with a better VMG (Velocity Made Good) than they were motoring straight into it (I don't remember being passed by any boat motoring and I would remember that). We also left people in anchorages that were waiting for some more favourable winds while the existing winds worked fine for us.

Tacking upwind we might be at about 40-50° to the swell depending on which tack and the difference between our heading and true wind direction, also doing so in a boat with a smaller hull silhouette that can pierce the waves a little better than a plump boat. The motoring boat would be running +/- about 10° straight into the swell on the same destination so they might have to reduce speed for comfort.

We sailed anywhere from 2kn to 18kn boat speed on that trip. I think a heavy condo type boat would motor that same passage more than half the time as a fair amount was into the wind.

I have described our boat to others as a 42' boat on 48' hulls. Each to there own but I think by the fact you are looking at this performance V's comfort issue you will probably be disappointed with a slower boat.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

What part of the Pacific? Its a big ocean.

Galapagos to Hiva Oa, Marquesas. About 3000 miles, 15 days 6 hours, average speed of 8.2. They had to slow down the last day to avoid a night entrance. It's here at the 18:38 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHP1GFCRWc

[donradcliffe]

Oh, that passage. Took me 17 days in a 45 ft, $100,000 mono.

[Sand crab]

That's pretty fast Don, what mono?

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by poseidon2027

Ok, I had originally seen the 45 and didnt really like it. The cockpit area is too small and other stuff I didnt like turned me off. I took a look at the 43 and 47 and those are definitely much better. I REALLY want to like them, but I dont know, I dont think they did a good job with the layout. There is no reason they, on the 47 they cant do a standing shower next to the master bedroom. I like how catamarans the owner has an entire hull as a little apt with the bedroom and bathroom. Could be knit-picking and once we actually see it we'll change our mind. We will definitely check this one out at the next boat show. We've got some years so if they fix a few things I dont like, then this will be at the top of my list. Right now I definitely put it in my top 3 though. Thank you for making me take a second look at it.

Well the 43, 45 and 47 puts the master cabin and all you need on one level above sea compared to one hull cave on owner cats. For that advantage I can go around and out of one door into the head. If you are only a couple that’s no problem, if you wanna privacy go to one of the two hulls.
Especially the 43 there is nothing comparable available as performance cat in this price range. You even struggle to find a 44ft production cat of the 3 big ones…
Well and for that some compromises can be made…don‘t look only at boat shows, charter for 2 weeks and you really see what’s ok and what’s not.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Oh, that passage. Took me 17 days in a 45 ft, $100,000 mono.

Good work, that's what, about 180 miles a day on average. That is a good average speed. Thats about 80% of theoretical hull speed non stop for 17 days.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Factor

Good work, that's what, about 180 miles a day on average. That is a good average speed. Thats about 80% of theoretical hull speed non stop for 17 days.

.. So Don had a wet dream

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Factor

Good work, that's what, about 180 miles a day on average. That is a good average speed. Thats about 80% of theoretical hull speed non stop for 17 days.

The boat was a Beneteau First 456 with a tall rig and lead keel options. Designed by German Frers for Admirals cup racing, it had a rated waterline of 39.3 ft (actual 42 ft) and an 8 ft draft. The normal passage speed was 170-175 miles/day, but I have gone 500 miles in 2.5 days on a couple of occasions.

The Pacific passage was faster than most because (1) I got wind within 5 hours of departing Wreck Bay, instead of motoring for a day or two, and (2) listening to the daily SSB checkins, I realized that there was more favorable current at 5-7 degrees S instead of heading to 10-12 S, and was putting 15-20 miles per day on boats to my south.

The picture is of the boat finishing the Bequia Easter Regatta single handed round the island race, first in cruising division for the third year in a row.

There is a 456 available in Langkawi for USD 69,000. If you look at the listing pictures, you will see that the interior is NOT by IKEA.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The boat was a Beneteau First 456 with a tall rig and lead keel options. Designed by German Frers for Admirals cup racing, it had a rated waterline of 39.3 ft (actual 42 ft) and an 8 ft draft. The normal passage speed was 170-175 miles/day, but I have gone 500 miles in 2.5 days on a couple of occasions.

The Pacific passage was faster than most because (1) I got wind within 5 hours of departing Wreck Bay, instead of motoring for a day or two, and (2) listening to the daily SSB checkins, I realized that there was more favorable current at 5-7 degrees S instead of heading to 10-12 S, and was putting 15-20 miles per day on boats to my south.

The picture is of the boat finishing the Bequia Easter Regatta single handed round the island race, first in cruising division for the third year in a row.

There is a 456 available in Langkawi for USD 69,000. If you look at the listing pictures, you will see that the interior is NOT by IKEA.

Nice. Just a note, good multis don't have interiors by ikea either.

[slowNlow]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The boat was a Beneteau First 456 with a tall rig and lead keel options. Designed by German Frers for Admirals cup racing, it had a rated waterline of 39.3 ft (actual 42 ft) and an 8 ft draft. The normal passage speed was 170-175 miles/day, but I have gone 500 miles in 2.5 days on a couple of occasions.

The Pacific passage was faster than most because (1) I got wind within 5 hours of departing Wreck Bay, instead of motoring for a day or two, and (2) listening to the daily SSB checkins, I realized that there was more favorable current at 5-7 degrees S instead of heading to 10-12 S, and was putting 15-20 miles per day on boats to my south.

The picture is of the boat finishing the Bequia Easter Regatta single handed round the island race, first in cruising division for the third year in a row.

There is a 456 available in Langkawi for USD 69,000. If you look at the listing pictures, you will see that the interior is NOT by IKEA.

2019 That the event? Couldn’t find any more recent results but looked like a J105 took it?

I know your boat. Well, the model. You have to share some secrets, your sailing that thing at about 130% of typical.

[poseidon2027]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

The Sailing Family is on YouTube. They had an Lagoon 380 and now have an Outremer 51. I know it's apples and kumquats but they crossed the Pacific in 20 days on the Lagoon but only 15 days in the O.

Yes, ive watched all their videos. One of the reasons i started leaning towards a performance cat, lol.