Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Post from yvest asked about the new regen, Stu.

I responded to his post. You are posting about the existing regen.

I'm fairly good a hunting out information. I would expect such a revolutionary development as 300% greater re-gen to be all over the media. How come I can't find ANY such claim other yours?

Care to point me at any source?

Google finds 3 links on the intertubes to OceanVolt 300% regeneration. They are all links to your posts here!

[BigBeakie]

Originally Posted by StuM

The figures you state as new ones are not just 300% better, at reasonable cruising speeds they appear to be 400-1000% better. (Assuming that you can reach those speeds with the additional drag from that re-gen).

How about presenting something other than hearsay as evidence of this new technology? Like a copy of a data sheet from OV maybe?

Does the data include drag data?
ISTM that the drag from taking 2-3kW of power from the water would be similar to having a 2-3HP outboard strapped on the back of the boat running in reverse. TAANSTAFL

You guys are idiots, and I'm outta here.

[StuM]

Maybe it came from the OceanVolt LinkedIn page?
"Oceanvolt Last day of Metstrade 2016 & it's getting very busy at our stand! Come join us at 12.833 and checkout the new variable pitch sail drive! Same size, four times the recharging!"

So all this "new re-gen technology" amounts to a variable pitch propeller which generates 4 times as much power as some previous unspecified, presumably folding* propeller. They've been around for a long time!

*From the same OV page as the previous chart:
"The Oceanvolt systems are optimized for either 2 or 3 blade Flexofold folding propellers & Gori Propellers. Other folding propellers can also be used but they provide 30-50% less propulsion and regeneration power. "

I suspect that all the hype is just based on roughly doubling the output of a folder by using a flexofold/Gori and then roughly doubling it again with a new design of variable pitch prop.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

You guys are idiots, and I'm outta here.

That would be a "no" then?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

You guys are idiots, and I'm outta here.

So you come up with information that violates the laws of physics (15kw electric motor puts out 75kw at the prop shaft) or makes improvements that are an order of magnitude better than existing technology (300-1000% improvement in regeneration depending on which of your posts we read), refuse to provide any supporting evidence or links...and we are "idiots" for questioning the "facts" that you post.

If that's the new definition of "idiot", I will proudly display a plaque stating that I am an idiot.

By the Webster's definition of "idiot", I think most would categorize who is an idiot differently.

[KJThomas]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Yes, I could not agree with you more, that there should be owners posting their own experiences here on this and other forums.

But what would happen if that were to occur? Would they be accused by some here who believe it "doesn't/can't/won't work" of "fudging the figures", of "not testing properly", or some other dodge???

If you read the one-eyed posts on this forum from the naive skeptics, you'll
realise that there is a powerful incentive to NOT get involved. I have been told that EP owners are actively avoiding participating. When I have my boat launched, I have made a promise to publish the data, warts and all. That I will do, and I'll make sure the testing is done as well as it can be.

In the meantime, awhile ago I did post a link that showed 2 identical 45' cats from a charter company in a tug of war that showed 2x 10kW OceanVolt's towing 2x 29HP (22kW) diesels at maximum power to demonstrate the superior thrust of electric motors. Here is the link again

The discussion following that post was indicative of the anti EP agenda. The salient point of that video was that the force of the diesel boat could have been wind or current and because EP has better torque, it pushes against forces better than diesels with twice the Kw. But all we got was comments that tug of wars are irrelevant, and there must have been a current in favour of the OceanVolts, and other nonsense.

No wonder there are sailors who are reluctant to get involved here.

As to why marine journalists are not writing it up, I dunno, go ask Nigel Calder. I think he was invited to Finland to see for himself.

Tug of wars are irrelevant.
The power and torque required to win a stationary pull are not related to that required to move a boat at speed. For one thing. There is no hull resistance until the boat is moving.

[cameron82]

Ok here is my debacle if one could generate say 800watts that's great but to get a battery system to be able to store that 800watts is another question

Could capacitors be used to quickly store the energy then use that quick storage to charge deep cycle storage with lithium or lead acid

I hear all the talk of being able to produce super outputs under sail but storing the energy is another question

[StuM]

Originally Posted by cameron82

Ok here is my debacle if one could generate say 800watts that's great but to get a battery system to be able to store that 800watts is another question

Could capacitors be used to quickly store the energy then use that quick storage to charge deep cycle storage with lithium or lead acid

I hear all the talk of being able to produce super outputs under sail but storing the energy is another question

Putting 800W into a large battery bank is trivial, even for LA batteries.
During bulk charging, LA can safely accept C/5 so a 1000Ah bank can be charged with 200A or 2400W.

LiFePO4 can be charged at C/2 with no problems. That means that a 1000Ah bank can safely be charged with 500A or 6000W.

Or to put it another way, you can put your 800W straight into anything larger than a 330Ah FLA bank or a 130Ah LiFePO4 battery.

And BTW, capacitors work the opposite way round to you suggestion. They slowly accept charge and release it quickly

[myocean]

Originally Posted by cameron82

I hear all the talk of being able to produce super outputs under sail but storing the energy is another question

This depends on what kind of batteries you have. Lithium batteries can be charged with their full capacity within about 2 hours. (some more e.g. 3 hours, some less, e.g. 1 hour)
This means they can be charged from 0% to 100% within something like 2 hours.
So if you have a 5 kWh battery, this can take about 2.5 kWh per hour which is 2500 Watt hydrogeneration power.
Hybrid systems often come with a total battery capacity of 20 kWh and more. For this continuous charging with 800 W results in a full battery after 25 hours.
The new BMW i3 high-voltage battery (30.5 kWh) Torqeedo is using, can be charged with more than 25 kW generator power.

[cameron82]

Cheers in regards to battery systems what would be the best dc to dc charge system I have a sterling charge controller from the alternator was thinking a similar system .I use Rich electric mppt charge controllers on my house system .Is there a certain brand you would recommenced

[beiland]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Since it is relevant to this thread and in the spirit of raising peoples consciousness re electric hybrid technology, I post the following recent article in pdf by Nigel Calder on the viability of hybrid now.

I think he makes some very good comments on the fact that these systems were under specified in the beginning, but things have moved on and there are now both serial and parallel systems that are out there doing the job.

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Sorry, the pdf was too big for this forum. I don't have a link.

I've run into that problem of posting a sizable PDF on this forum as well. Sometimes I post the PDF on another boating forum that is discussing a similar subject, then make a link to it here.

BTW, he did 2 articles recently, one in Sail mag, and one in Professional Boatbuilder.
(He also did a number of (series of) excellent articles in Professional Boatbuilder a number of years ago as the technology was really heating up)

[beiland]

Originally Posted by beiland

I've run into that problem of posting a sizable PDF on this forum as well. Sometimes I post the PDF on another boating forum that is discussing a similar subject, then make a link to it here.

....for instance here
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/electric-horses-really-bigger-55435-8.html#post792548

[yvest]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

The OV figures are you get 1 kW at just over 6 knots, 2 kW at just over 8 knots, 3 kW at 10 knots, and 4.5 Kw at 12 knots.

Of course that is only tank testing where things would be controlled to probably 0.1 knot and plus or minus whatever watts instrumentation could measure, so it won't satisfy the crowd here... it's all magic after all.

Thanks for the answer, but what is the new tech around that ? Different kind of propeller, motor ? Electronics ?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by yvest

Thanks for the answer, but what is the new tech around that ? Different kind of propeller, motor ? Electronics ?

It appears that they've finally discovered and employed the variable pitch propeller.

[Multihull]

Originally Posted by yvest

Thanks for the answer, but what is the new tech around that ? Different kind of propeller, motor ? Electronics ?

First of all. I know nothing about electric drive and energy storage.

But I just saw this:

https://www.hansegroup.com/gb/home/c...der-drive.html

A 4KW electric engine for a (small) mono. Not for extended cruising.

I believe that innovations like this one will eventually make electric drive feasible for many scenarios.

Cheers Rob