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Old 09-08-2020, 03:24   #2116
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Physics demands that any power produced by regen comes from the wind. And the efficiency of such a system is quantifiable. The fact that no supplier has specified this easily obtained data is at least interesting.
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Old 09-08-2020, 05:53   #2117
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Physics demands that any power produced by regen comes from the wind. And the efficiency of such a system is quantifiable. The fact that no supplier has specified this easily obtained data is at least interesting.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to enlighten us then?

I for one look forward to your quantified analysis. Much appreciated.
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Old 10-08-2020, 02:45   #2118
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Physics demands that any power produced by regen comes from the wind. And the efficiency of such a system is quantifiable. The fact that no supplier has specified this easily obtained data is at least interesting.
Haven't read the whole thread, so im sorry if you have mentioned it before but what in your opinion is the most efficient way to make power under sail when the solar panels are at least partially covered?

My take on this regen thing is the proponents are simply saying if you have an electric motor its just free power when you are sailing. I don't think anyone is saying it's more efficient than solar or anything else or that it is a major source of power, it obviously can't be because no one sails everyday.
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Old 10-08-2020, 03:49   #2119
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Nothing is “free” in cruising as in life.

The least expensive way to make electricity is using diesel. A purpose built generator can quickly recharge batteries and can run air con for days. The cost and weight, including fuel, per kWh is minimal. Weight is also low per kWh generated. Run time of a generator is greatly reduced by using solar to top batteries up. So a combination of solar and fossil fuel is the “least expensive” IMO.

But building all electric boats is not about saving money. The decision to go all electric is not a time or money saving decision. They take longer to build and cost a lot more than a traditionally powered boat. So searching for the concept of “free” in an electric boat discussion is pointless IMO.
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Old 10-08-2020, 04:24   #2120
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

For sure. Don't ever get rid of a perfectly good diesel engine. In fact the most efficient thing is do it probably put a bigger alternator and lithium batteries in your boat. I love diesel, drove a Turo Mercedes E320 Bluetec for 1000 kilometers on one tank of fuel. Especially in some states where diesel is ridiculous cheap. But if your diesel engine is gone and you needed to remotor and your use scenario fits an electric motor with lithium banks, then it becomes viable. In that case the regen is an 'added benefit'.


I'm sorry for using the word 'free' . haha

EDIT : My secret wish is that we never run out of diesel in my lifetime. But unfortunately that is not gonna happen. Even if it is still around for another 50 years regulations and price will be against it by the end of this decade. Diesel passengers cars are not allowed in major cities in China and a lot of inner city areas of europe, i find out this when i was researching a VW campervan trip. You have to park it outside.
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Old 10-08-2020, 05:22   #2121
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

I wonder how long before Marine diesels also require Adblue and ULSD 。 A lot of cruising grounds are not going to have ULSD or AdBlue。 Im thinking places like fiji for aussies and south america for north americans. I remember this was one of the reason why overlanders preferred older Diesels because you can not get ULSD in a lot of places and carrying Adblue is a hassle. Touring with a new VW california anywhere outside of europe is just not possible unless you had the petrol version.

I wonder if that happens will the old Yanmars become a hot commodity on the cruiser scene. haha
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Old 10-08-2020, 06:21   #2122
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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I wonder how long before Marine diesels also require Adblue and ULSD 。 A lot of cruising grounds are not going to have ULSD or AdBlue。 Im thinking places like fiji for aussies and south america for north americans. I remember this was one of the reason why overlanders preferred older Diesels because you can not get ULSD in a lot of places and carrying Adblue is a hassle. Touring with a new VW california anywhere outside of europe is just not possible unless you had the petrol version.

I wonder if that happens will the old Yanmars become a hot commodity on the cruiser scene. haha
Old mechanical diesels have a following already. A lot of them can be rebuilt pretty much indefinitely.

Eventually, DEF and ULSD will likely take over the world unless something else comes out to replace them. Of course, you can disable/omit some of the emissions stuff. It's not legal but lots of pickups have their emission systems disabled. Just a question of if anyone is checking that they are enabled.

Overlanders and long range cruisers are unlikely to ever drive the adoption of anything. Both groups are simply way to small to have any impact on the market.

Keep in mind probably 99% of cruising boats never get more than 200miles from their home country, so most cruisers will never have to deal with this issue. In the same way, it's unlikely to move electric propulsion out of being a niche product.
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Old 10-08-2020, 08:00   #2123
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Keep in mind probably 99% of cruising boats never get more than 200miles from their home country, so most cruisers will never have to deal with this issue. In the same way, it's unlikely to move electric propulsion out of being a niche product.
Latest when popular sailing destinations like the bahamas or the caribean islands don't allow boats with combustion engines in, then the industry will comply. As they already ready do with "clean" diesel.
I am quite sure that I will see that happening within my livetime.
And no, I am not 20 anymore...
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Old 10-08-2020, 08:03   #2124
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Latest when popular sailing destinations like the bahamas or the caribean islands don't allow boats with combustion engines in, then the industry will comply. As they already ready do with "clean" diesel.
I am quite sure that I will see that happening within my livetime.
And no, I am not 20 anymore...
I don't think that will happen in the next 50 years. Change is slow.

The first step would be mandating emission control on NEW diesel powerplants with existing engines being grandfathered in. Not even talking no diesel just requiring modern cleaner (not clean but cleaner). That might happen in five years it might not happen for 50 years but it would be the first step. In the grand scheme of things pleasurecraft are a rounding error. It will eventually happen though. Then maybe 20 or 30 years after that there will be a phase out of existing diesel powerplants which don't meet emission requirements.

The bahamas isn't going "no diesel" in the next half century. It would destroy their economy. The lead will come from the EU and US. Much like how you can't buy a new 2 stroke motor in the US anymore but plenty of existing ones are still allowed.
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Old 10-08-2020, 08:52   #2125
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Latest when popular sailing destinations like the bahamas or the caribean islands don't allow boats with combustion engines in, then the industry will comply. As they already ready do with "clean" diesel.
I am quite sure that I will see that happening within my livetime.
And no, I am not 20 anymore...
You have it backwards. The wealthy countries where the vast majority of new motors are bought will lead the way and smaller poorer countries will follow when it becomes impossible/more expensive for them not to follow.

As someone mentioned, you can still get 2 stroke outboards in a lot of the Caribbean islands.

Small island nations in the trade winds will likely be among the last to institute draconian rules outlawing ICE. There are huge downsides to their economy and little direct upside. Many are tourism dependent because they are relatively poor. If they start implementing expensive programs, they lose their competitive edge in tourism.
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Old 10-08-2020, 10:40   #2126
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Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

On a lightish 40-45 foot cat like a seawind or outremer with MPS and screecher. Is it possible to maintain say 4-5 knots in most situations? Im asking because reading through this giant thread it seems most people agree an electric motor can run on decent lithium bank for a few hours. Sailing uma might be biased but it seems they have done ok with a crappy home made electric engine and no generator. It would be interesting to see how they go with the new oceanvolt. I noticed with uma i hear a lot of “ the wind is picking up tommorow we”ll leave then”. Maybe the system works if you have the time and patience to treat the engine as an auxiliary. Not possible for everyone i know. When i was sailing on sf bay you sometimes had to fight a 4 knot current and headwinds but if i were a better sailor i could have tacked my way in or if there was no wind a couple hours motoring would have been enough.
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Old 10-08-2020, 11:25   #2127
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Bigger issue for a cruiser is probably heating. Without diesel its gonna be tough in a lot of areas, almost insurmountable at night. How much batteries would you need to heat a 45 foot cat overnight? . I think uma installed a wood fired heater.
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Old 10-08-2020, 11:55   #2128
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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On a lightish 40-45 foot cat like a seawind or outremer with MPS and screecher. Is it possible to maintain say 4-5 knots in most situations? Im asking because reading through this giant thread it seems most people agree an electric motor can run on decent lithium bank for a few hours. Sailing uma might be biased but it seems they have done ok with a crappy home made electric engine and no generator. It would be interesting to see how they go with the new oceanvolt. I noticed with uma i hear a lot of “ the wind is picking up tommorow we”ll leave then”. Maybe the system works if you have the time and patience to treat the engine as an auxiliary. Not possible for everyone i know. When i was sailing on sf bay you sometimes had to fight a 4 knot current and headwinds but if i were a better sailor i could have tacked my way in or if there was no wind a couple hours motoring would have been enough.
It's been said multiple times on this thread...if you are a purist sailor and only use propulsion to get in and out of harbor, electric is very much viable.

But that's a very rare cruiser.

On heating, I think the presumption is most cruisers tend toward the tropics. Certainly in cold areas, you need a means of heating the boat and batteries are a great option.
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Old 10-08-2020, 19:31   #2129
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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It's been said multiple times on this thread...if you are a purist sailor and only use propulsion to get in and out of harbor, electric is very much viable.

But that's a very rare cruiser.

On heating, I think the presumption is most cruisers tend toward the tropics. Certainly in cold areas, you need a means of heating the boat and batteries are a great option.

A seawind 1160 lite with two torqeedo 10kw outboard mated to a centrally mounted 10kw generator with twin diesel tanks for diesel hydronic heating seem like a pretty good setup even for a non purist. 1200w solar would probably be enough for getting in and out of harbors with the generator kicking in for water making,overcast days and long range motoring on one engine at a leisurely pace or motor sail. Doe's that sound reasonable? 15w outboards will be better but they don't exist right now.
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Old 10-08-2020, 23:29   #2130
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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A seawind 1160 lite with two torqeedo 10kw outboard mated to a centrally mounted 10kw generator with twin diesel tanks for diesel hydronic heating seem like a pretty good setup even for a non purist. 1200w solar would probably be enough for getting in and out of harbors with the generator kicking in for water making,overcast days and long range motoring on one engine at a leisurely pace or motor sail. Doe's that sound reasonable? 15w outboards will be better but they don't exist right now.
Seawind sells you even 2kW of solar.
Not sure if you follow Learning the lines on YT, they had a similar idea with an 1160 lite.
There are even 25kW outboard available from Torqueedo, but they require a high voltage setup including a batterypack from a BMW i3.
Look up deep blue by Torqueedo.
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