JARCAT CC29 vs WHARRAM TIKI 30

[freelife]

I could really use some input on comparing these two design,s. Of course people will have other designs to suggest, but these are the design,s in question. The wharram offers versatility with transport,storage,low windage and a proven track record in many different conditions. The jarcat i.m.o. has a lot of good points as well,good accommodation,deck mounted diesel,centre cockpit,very sturdy construction and a lot more shelter. Both design,s would be used for coastal sailing with the possibility of a short passage here and there,which boat would sail better with the weight right and the same weather and sea conditions. I really like both of these designs, but the tiki would be easier for me to build,because of space. By the way I should mention I will be building either of these,so it is not a matter of second hand market or construction costs. Any help would be great as I am about ready to purchase plans so I can start cutting panels and bits and pieces during winter, I have almost finished a 4 meter skiff and it is too cold to epoxy or paint at the moment. So I may as well be cutting what I can to speed up construction when the weather is warmer. Cheers from OZ.

[cat man do]

Depends what you want





Jarcat hands down for me, but modified with a step job and a 9.9 yamie or equivalent.

If building from scratch, neither.

[freelife]

Curious as to why the 9.9 rather than diesel, would it not be safer carrying diesel as apposed to petrol and wouldn,t the diesel have a longer range and a longer life? I understand the 9.9 would be a lot lighter but which of the two would perform better? Since I am building from scratch what would you suggest,with a similar build cost?

[cat man do]

Well theres a world of difference between the two boats you have mentioned and personally I wouldn't put the effort and finances into building a wharram vs just buying one.
If you are looking at building a 29 ft bridgedeck cat like the cc29, I'd push the finances out a bit further and do something like this.
Really, there is not much more in it

33 Simpson Wildside - YouTube

33 Simpson Wildside: Sailing Catamaran for Sale | Fibreglass Cedar Sandwich Sail Boats | Boats Online | New South Wales (NSW) - Valentine, Newcastle Nsw

As for the diesel vs outboard, its a weight issue on a boat so small.
As for flammability of petrol, hows that car going that you drive daily?

[freelife]

Thank,s for the feedback, I seem to recall on one of my other threads you were an advocate of the Simpson designs. I also think you were talking about the strip plank verses plywood construction, and if memory serves me correctly you had built a strip plank simpson? if so were you happy with the plans and what are your thoughts on the strip method. I must say as I have a carpentry background that the round bilge does look like a better product,what about repairs? I will have another look at the simpson designs and maybe I will have some more questions to throw at you. Thank,s again. Cheers Brett.

[boon949]

Hi freelife, in my opinion the wharram designs are more of a camping boat. Especially at that length. If you are considering going off shore you really need some protection on deck.
Another design to consider is the simpson backslash. If your starting from scratch you could quite easly extend the design a few feet to meet the length requirements you need. This is a very roomy boat with full standing headroom in some parts of the hulls.
I'm helping a friend finish one of these off and it's turning out to be a great design

[Teleman]

The Tiki 30 pros: lots of deck space, demountable.
cons: wet, no standing headroom below, very limited accom, not as cheap or easy to build as you may think, upwind performance average.

The CC 29 pros: great accom with headroom throughout, safe and dry centre cockpit, easy access to motor, surprisingly good performance on all points of sail, simple construction.
cons: Looks boxy to some, no designer support as Ross Turner is deceased.

Having studied this size/cost of cat extensively, I prefer the Richard Woods 28' Gypsy. Accom is good enough for 2 people to liveaboard, performance is good, construction is simple and modular. You can build the hulls, cuddy and beams at home and assemble near the water. Hell, it even looks good!

As far as your choices, I would recommend the CC29. Wharrams look lovely, but the performance and accom would soon become tiresome and irritating.

[freelife]

Thank,s boon949, while I am still pondering on designs, I find myself frustrated having time on my hands and nothing to sail this summer. So I am keen to build something I can store on a trailer and whip out on long weekends and r.d.o,s. The downside is the plans for most cats in that range are imo a bit steep in price,for something to cruise the coastline and bays in my area (vic australia) I dont need blistering performance nor do I need a king size bed. Just something useable for now and maybe my boys can play around with it , and if I end up not needing it whack it on ebay. So I am just about to click on the (buy it now button) of the team scarab fish and chips plans,which appear to be very fair at $150. What do you think?

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by boon949

Another design to consider is the simpson backslash. If your starting from scratch you could quite easly extend the design a few feet to meet the length requirements you need. This is a very roomy boat with full standing headroom in some parts of the hulls.
I'm helping a friend finish one of these off and it's turning out to be a great design

That it is but having sailed on them both the Ground Effect is better
We comfortably took this one to New Caledonia and cruised her for a month there before handing over to the new owner.
Would you do that on the Backslash?

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by freelife

The downside is the plans for most cats in that range are imo a bit steep in price,for something to cruise the coastline and bays in my area (vic australia) I dont need blistering performance nor do I need a king size bed. Just something useable for now and maybe my boys can play around with it , and if I end up not needing it whack it on ebay. So I am just about to click on the (buy it now button) of the team scarab fish and chips plans,which appear to be very fair at $150. What do you think?

LOL, Give it away now if plan cost of a few hundred dollars is enough to scare you off.

At the end of the day labour content will be similar
Material cost will be similar
Resale value will be markedly different depending on design , usability and finish

[Eco Voyager]

Not sure if this is any help but i sailed a Jarcat 5.5m around the outer Whitsundays for5 weeks. It was very safe and fast and stable. We had 25 to 30 k winds and it still felt safe. It did not look really sleek though! Easy to repair as design is basic ply panels. One of my best sailing trips. We anchored inside the reef on beaches where we dried out on sand, never feared hitting bommies at night and could walk off without worrying about anchor watches as we were dry all night.

I sailed a Wharram Kat in NZ in 40+ knots. It does not respond well to motoring and a lee shore nearly saw us wrecked. I gave up the idea to sail it across the Tasman as i did not like a few things. We lost parts of the boat in Cook Straits! The design is a very, very wet boat! It is more suited to reef waters ie a warm climate boat and calmer seas. It does steer lightly and easily follows hercoursedue to keel shaped hull form. The hulls flex on rubbers so you can never tighten the rigging fully affecting sail performance. It was cramped even at 35ft. I was living on it for 6 months. The front beam snapped when it hit a pile. The companion ways were facing inboard which meant often waves would enter the cabin. Ideal boat for a hippie in the tropics!

I'd go for the Simpson the other guy suggested. For now to satisfy you need to be on the water buy a cheap trailer-tri whilst you build a decent catamaran to cruise in Victoria.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Eco Voyager

Not sure if this is any help but i sailed a Jarcat 5.5m around the outer Whitsundays for5 weeks. It was very safe and fast and stable. We had 25 to 30 k winds and it still felt safe. It did not look really sleek though! Easy to repair as design is basic ply panels. One of my best sailing trips. We anchored inside the reef on beaches where we dried out on sand, never feared hitting bommies at night and could walk off without worrying about anchor watches as we were dry all night.

I sailed a Wharram Kat in NZ in 40+ knots. It does not respond well to motoring and a lee shore nearly saw us wrecked. I gave up the idea to sail it across the Tasman as i did not like a few things. We lost parts of the boat in Cook Straits! The design is a very, very wet boat! It is more suited to reef waters ie a warm climate boat and calmer seas. It does steer lightly and easily follows hercoursedue to keel shaped hull form. The hulls flex on rubbers so you can never tighten the rigging fully affecting sail performance. It was cramped even at 35ft. I was living on it for 6 months. The front beam snapped when it hit a pile. The companion ways were facing inboard which meant often waves would enter the cabin. Ideal boat for a hippie in the tropics!

I'd go for the Simpson the other guy suggested. For now to satisfy you need to be on the water buy a cheap trailer-tri whilst you build a decent catamaran to cruise in Victoria.

Outer Whitsundays are still pretty much sheltered conditions. Would tow my powerboats up there and go out in all weather when it was too rough to go out from Mackay.

Whitsundays are very safe protected conditions and not a real test. Just don't try to anchor off Airlie Rocks in strong Northerlies.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by freelife

So I am just about to click on the (buy it now button) of the team scarab fish and chips plans,which appear to be very fair at $150. What do you think?

What do I think?
I think you could buy a seawind 24 and be out there sailing it now for less than material cost of building the scarab.

Save your building energy and health for the real boat.

[boon949]

Originally Posted by freelife

Thank,s boon949, while I am still pondering on designs, I find myself frustrated having time on my hands and nothing to sail this summer. So I am keen to build something I can store on a trailer and whip out on long weekends and r.d.o,s. The downside is the plans for most cats in that range are imo a bit steep in price,for something to cruise the coastline and bays in my area (vic australia) I dont need blistering performance nor do I need a king size bed. Just something useable for now and maybe my boys can play around with it , and if I end up not needing it whack it on ebay. So I am just about to click on the (buy it now button) of the team scarab fish and chips plans,which appear to be very fair at $150. What do you think?

Looks like a simple boat to build....I've had some experience with seawind 24 cats, and find the cabin space a little confining....see if you can mock up the interior space ,before you commit , to get an idea of the size....seems a little heavy for a 24fter....if you go ahead with , look at some weight saving areas ...such as furniture and flooring ...you may be able to use featherlight, nomex or duracore to keep the weight down...as a sideline ..there is a multihull regatta on at Lake Macquarie this november ( near Newcastle NSW Aus) always worth a look .....usually a variety of boats. Cheers

[David_Old_Jersey]

Never built a boat - but I would have thought good plans would be worth there weight in gold by saving time and money later during the build, and if the price of that is a higher cost for plans then so be it.

Personally if the Wharram works for your intended use / area (esp. that most of the useable living space is outside) then I would go for that - partly because I prefer the looks (yes, I am that shallow!) but mainly because a long history of DIY building, so most of the wrinkles should have been ironed out and support / knowledge from others. Just have to suck up the shortcomings......but all boats have those.