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Old 24-09-2021, 18:24   #1
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If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

So I’ve been looking at travelers for a while and I came across this old pic of a Gunboat I had to look at the davits.

Well, it has a different system without a traveler.

Why shouldn’t I do that?
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Old 24-09-2021, 18:29   #2
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

Double mainsheet instead of a traveler is an option. There's one boat (mono not cat) in my marina with that setup.
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Old 24-09-2021, 18:46   #3
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Why shouldnít I do that?
No reason. All Catanas are set up like that.
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Old 24-09-2021, 19:33   #4
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

Double mainsheet places all the main sail handling tasks in the same time slot when tacking or gybing.

Traveller and main sheet allows task separation allowing easier short handed sailing.

With an efficient main traveller, boom vang and self tacking jib it's achievable to short tack a cat single handed.
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Old 24-09-2021, 19:50   #5
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

I've raced boats with this system, it can be burdensome when easing.
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Old 24-09-2021, 19:50   #6
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

It's a terrible idea for a performance boat. I have no idea why a Gunboat would have this setup. You have less control of the boom, the angles of the lines in tension loose the straight line pull that you can have with a traveller.
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Old 24-09-2021, 21:01   #7
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

I agree with the sail "handling" negatives presented here, but I do wonder if boom /sail stabilization from the triangulation of the sheeting isn't an advantage going to windward.

On my catamaran with traveler, even with main sheeted down tight, there is a good bit of boom movement from puffs and waves. Perhaps that's disruptive to air flow and drive.
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Old 24-09-2021, 22:42   #8
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

I personally really don’t like this type system. But a traveler can be expensive. Do you not have a beam area already to mount? These are always things done best before launching so you can be sailing the 3rd day after launching.
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Old 24-09-2021, 23:14   #9
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

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Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
It's a terrible idea for a performance boat. I have no idea why a Gunboat would have this setup. You have less control of the boom, the angles of the lines in tension loose the straight line pull that you can have with a traveller.
Not completely true, you keep both sheets under tension and can adjust the pull vector on the leech by adjusting the sheets angle.
Works just as well as with a traveller.

Only big drawback is that you can have issues clearing a Bimini with the sheet if you are not careful.

Double mainsheet systems are also much much cheaper and lighter, as you do not need a heavy track and the structure to support it.

If you are used to the double mainsheet its easy to handle.

Ask me how I know, I did sail both types of arrangements a lot and currently sail and own a 35ft cat with double mainsheet.
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Old 24-09-2021, 23:43   #10
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

Itís indeed a bit confusing in the beginning to trim the main with double sheets but you have definitely more options. One is to attache the leeward sheet on the Catana built in pad eye on the side deck when going dead down wind. Great as a preventer and to trim the leach. Another is that double sheets prevents the boom to move around at rolly anchorages.
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Old 24-09-2021, 23:54   #11
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggray View Post
I agree with the sail "handling" negatives presented here, but I do wonder if boom /sail stabilization from the triangulation of the sheeting isn't an advantage going to windward.

On my catamaran with traveler, even with main sheeted down tight, there is a good bit of boom movement from puffs and waves. Perhaps that's disruptive to air flow and drive.
The list of things that give a little in puffs and waves is very small for a cat already, transferring all that into shock loading of the rig, so I think a little give like you describe should be welcomed.

That said, I prefer a traveler as well. On my Laser, I had a rope traveler, check that out as another option.

All these rope and block based solutions from small boats started upscaling when the new fibers like Dyneema, Vectran etc. came on the market.
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Old 25-09-2021, 02:36   #12
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

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Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Not completely true, you keep both sheets under tension and can adjust the pull vector on the leech by adjusting the sheets angle.
Works just as well as with a traveller.

Only big drawback is that you can have issues clearing a Bimini with the sheet if you are not careful.

Double mainsheet systems are also much much cheaper and lighter, as you do not need a heavy track and the structure to support it.

If you are used to the double mainsheet its easy to handle.

Ask me how I know, I did sail both types of arrangements a lot and currently sail and own a 35ft cat with double mainsheet.
Ive never sailed one so it's hypothetical for me and I'll accept what you say but how do the lines work DDW, similar problem in light winds, they must be all over the Targa or with the very small angles, maybe 15-20į, how do you control the boom accurately when close hauled.
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Old 25-09-2021, 04:11   #13
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

Originally I had a traveller set up but there was one major drawback. It was at the seat level just aft of the companionway entry so the main sheet was always in the way of ingress/egress. When I decided to install a hardtop I realized that the main sheet would be in its way as well. So I reconfigured the main sheet to this two point set up.

My circumnavigating buddy had the same set up on his boat (on which I crewed on and off for 8,000+ miles) and it worked flawlessly. I also recalled once looking at an old 1970s Chris Craft Commander with such an arrangement but being a wannabie newbie then was talked out of buying that boat by supposedly more knowledgeable sailor. His argument was that I will need arms like Popeye's to tame the beast.

Which turned out to be a mistake as this arrangement is easy to handle provided you set up purchase ratio you're comfortable with.
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Old 25-09-2021, 04:15   #14
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

All the Sunsail and Moorings Leopard cats I have been on have this system, including ours. I just assumed it was a safer option for inexperienced credit card sailors. I have only sailed this system as our previous and current Leopards have it. I have always thought that when we take her out the program I would put a traveler if the roof structure could handle it. However I have gotten used to it now so probably wonít bother. Besides, itís seems pretty idiot proof, so it suites me
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Old 25-09-2021, 04:26   #15
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Re: If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Canít I?

These are GREAT responses. Thank you. I’ll stand back here and learn and take it all in.
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