I watched a guy nearly capsize right in front of us

[MarkusK]

Originally Posted by Svan

It can go so wrong so fast
https://www.reddit.com/r/yesyesyesye...oiling_mayhem/

That video is priceless. My new wallpaper. Thank you!
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[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by malbert73

None except for internet showing several wrecked multis towed or left floating upside down. If easy to right why wouldn’t it be done?

Since your comment to me drips with vast experience with capsized large cruising multis that were easily righted, feel free to educate me with some real world examples. I’m a quick learner [emoji3]

A lot is to do with insurance companies. In most cases they would rather make a full "write off" payout than agree to an unproven salvage method that may fail resulting in them being liable for the salvage costs plus a full payout if it failed.

I am familiar with one instance where the rescued owner had organised such a recovery and was told categorically by their insurance that if they did not proceed they would have full and final payment the next day. The alternative would at the risk of the owner.

[Shaneesprit]

Remember like a mono as a cat goes over the wind falls out of the sheets just as it does on a mono
Not that I have ever been that close to going over
20kt wind and spinnaker and nothing.
If it was already lifting either they were really good or living dangerous

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by KJThomas

Not a Wharram. They bury the bow and trip over the flat foredeck when overpressed.


The hull never flies, the lee one just sinks.


Fortunately they have such small rigs you have to try really hard.

Really.. most all Wharrams have a netting up to the mast beam, or at least my two did.. and I've never come close to burying a bow, even with full sail in a F7 gusting 8.. overtook a tanker while doing 16kts on a 26ftr .
That was a buzz

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by ol1970

We just got back from 2 week sailing trip to French Polynesia and we were out in similar to probably a little worse conditions the day we sailed from Tahaa to Bora Bora. The pass from Tahaa put us on a dead downwind sail if we took the most direct route, but it is not a far sail and we had the wind and waves at our back so we took our time and tacked a few times...it was a glorious sail for us. We did see a few large catamarans beating into the wind. A 55' Catana, 62' Lagoon, 44' FP, and a 46' Leopard...and all of them were really getting beat up. They were all motoring, but the waves they were taking on had them rocking back and forth and both hulls visible as they would crest over the wave. I could absolutely see how one of these could get a little squirrely with full sail up in these conditions. The day we sailed from Raiatea to Huahine we were the only boat out there and with 3M waves on our bow nearly the entire way...waves are hard to judge, but we had a couple that were breaking that I'd estimate just shy of 5M. First time I've ever really been intimidated by the size of waves...but damn what a sense of accomplishment my wife and I felt after we finished the crossing! If we were in a Catamaran we would have turned around...this trip we chartered a 44' mono.

Unless it’s light wind, say less than 8 knots true, we never motor upwind if there is any wind chop as it’s just too slow and the boat hobbyhorses uncomfortably (and we’ve got a 55 foot cat). In any sort of breeze sailing is always way more comfortable and faster. That includes the conditions you describe Taha’a to Bora Bora. The Catana at least should have been able to sail upwind effectively. They definitely wouldn’t have had full sail up and with two hulls cats generally don’t get squirrelly.

Regarding your sail to Huahine, well done. It’s always exhilarating afterwards to have gone through testing conditions. You don’t say the wind strength but I expect if the waves were breaking (as opposed to whitecaps) then you must have had 25 knots of trade wind layering a 1-2 metre wind chop on top of the regular swell tops and that was breaking.

In our case that kind of wind means 30-35 knots over the deck and we would be triple reefed on the main and between 0% and 30% reefed on the jib depending on how much speed we want. We often need to limit our top speeds to avoid leaping off the tops of the swells and crashing down with the windward hull in a corkscrew motion. But with limited speed the boat glides up and over even with pretty steep seas and breaking tops. Relatively comfortable.

They say that cruising boats spend only 5% of their time sailing (presumably higher % if chartering or day/coastal cruising) so no need to optimise for sailing. But sheesh, not optimised for sailing sure makes those sailing days miserable when the wind is forward of the beam. And regardless of what gentlemen do or don’t do, sometimes you need your sailboat to go to windward and you can’t just take a 747 (mixed metaphors there, sorry).

We just completed a passage from Tonga to New Zealand via South Minerva Reef. Other than the first 24 hours out of Nuku’alofa the entire passage was forward of 60 degrees apparent wind angle. Our total distance sailed was just shy of 1500 miles, vs a straight line distance of about 900. Although we did race west over 300 miles along 30 degrees S to avoid a deepening low that gave us 40 knots on the beam (true wind speed and angle) for 18 hours and ridiculously short period and steep SW breaking swells. By limiting our speeds we mostly avoided bridgedeck slams and airtime. It would have really sucked to be on a condomaran. YMMV

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Really.. most all Wharrams have a netting up to the mast beam, or at least my two did.. and I've never come close to burying a bow, even with full sail in a F7 gusting 8.. overtook a tanker while doing 16kts on a 26ftr .

That was a buzz

And the Wharram is the only cat I know of that IS 2 monos lashed together!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

And the Wharram is the only cat I know of that IS 2 monos lashed together!

Likely why they go twice as fast as a mono..

[Training Wheels]

[emoji1360]

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

And the Wharram is the only cat I know of that IS 2 monos lashed together!

This makes no sense if you consider the hull length to beam, and hull waterline length to waterline beam ratios of modern Wharram catamarans.

They have high length to beam ratio hulls, normally around a 12:1 ratio. Generally higher than a modern cruising cat, and instead similar to performance multihull ratios.

In simple terms, Wharrams have long, narrow, and easily driven hulls. This is obvious to the trained observer.

They also generally have lower freeboard and lower windage, as well as long overhangs to provide further reserve buoyancy.

This is also the complete opposite to most modern monohulls.

So in fact it is the modern 'condomaran' that is far more like 'two monos joined together'. The opposite of what you have stated.

Contrary to what most people understand, Wharram hull shapes are in fact sufficiently fast, and built to plan they are also sufficiently light. The sail plan is however normally under powered in light air by modern standards.

Unfortunately many are also often not built to the original plan, overloaded, poorly equipped, and poorly sailed, often by non sailors. So of course like any boat, performance then suffers.

But two monohulls lashed together? No that is definitely a misunderstanding.

[Training Wheels]

Is this the argument clinic?

[jmh2002]

Only for those that post unsubstantiated nonsense that is contrary to the facts at hand... That normally results in being called out

[Training Wheels]

Geez Looeez
A monohull is any vessel with one hull. Unlash a Wharram (yes, they are lashed together) and you have 2 monohulls. There is no definition of monohull that specifies what b/l ratio must be. [emoji41]

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Is this the argument clinic?

No This is being hit on the head lessons

[Training Wheels]

No it’s not! [emoji1]

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

But two monohulls lashed together? No that is definitely a misunderstanding.

TW is correct.
Wharrams I've sailed are two single, stand alone hulls which are lashed together with cross-members and webbing straps - unlike any other cat I've been on.