Helia 44 abandoned off Puerto Rico

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I have noticed these things on cats and am of the opinion that they are a disaster waiting to happen.

Why have any of them open inward?

Why have acrylic in them?

Why have them quick opening?

It appears to be a problem which would be far better and lest costly solved with a piece of alloy plate, four bolts with wing nuts and a resilient gasket.

They are to be used if the vessel is upside down. It appears that sufficient buoyancy could be built into the aft end to ensure the engines weight was compensated for to allow the inverted vessel to float on an evenish keel (there's usually a dirty great box beam back there anyway) and if the vessel was not at risk of rapid sinking the few moments required to spin off four wing nuts and kick the plate out would not substantially increase the risk of being trapped in a sinking vessel.

I am not aware of any hatches that open inward. In general most inverted cats stay floating even for years, so they have plenty of floatation already.

The material for the hatch is not really the problem, it is the engineering of the hatch that is a problem. Having transparent lens I think is intended to allow light to enter in case of an inverted hull.

The hatches are generally designed for both ingress and egress. This is both for rescue and the idea that for an inverted cat, being inside might actually be better than outside.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by AllenRbrts

Photo of the boat from a screen shot of the Coast Guard video.

Could have been a thru hull as well or a hose connected to it.

Why are you assuming the worse?

If you don't like Multi's don't buy one. At the very least don't start spreading false narratives about things you know nothing about.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Happ

Could have been a thru hull as well or a hose connected to it.

Why are you assuming the worse?

If you don't like Multi's don't buy one. At the very least don't start spreading false narratives about things you know nothing about.

? Look under his name.... he owns a Fountaine Pajot Helia 44. I'd imagine this would be a concern to a current owner of just the type of boat that we are talking about here.

There has also been a history of the emergency hatch failing on these boats. He never faulted the boat, just the hatch design.

Matt

[IAmGroot]

I wonder if some of these are just normal deck hatches meant to be stood on...from the other side. Mount it upside down and have somebody put their feet on it a couple times and plan on falling through.

I am looking at cats from St. Francis and Kynsna that have the escape hatches mounted on the hulls up forward, facing inward. I have read that the theory is that if the cat does flip, it will be down by the stern and the escape hatch will be well above the waterline and you could climb out onto the underside of the trampoline. Made sense to me....

[pguillemin]

These boats - Lagoon and FP are not built to go offshore ; especially in any kind of weather ; So many things can go wrong ; laminate , structure, rigging , overload , overweight , seacock failure , Raw water intake failure on Engine or gen set ; and ass mentioned in the thread , escape hatches ; ungluing of hull windows ;; and i am sure I am missing a few

[smj]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

These boats - Lagoon and FP are not built to go offshore ; especially in any kind of weather ; So many things can go wrong ; laminate , structure, rigging , overload , overweight , seacock failure , Raw water intake failure on Engine or gen set ; and ass mentioned in the thread , escape hatches ; ungluing of hull windows ;; and i am sure I am missing a few

I see your a dealer/importer for Fountaine Pajot. Is this something you disclose to your customers before they hand over the cash?

[pguillemin]

No , I am not , I was an importer ( in the US ) for 10 years and got burn by the lack of quality once they went to infusion/ injection ; I have been following the building of cats - small and large for many years ; It seems that the new production boats - for the last two or 3 years are better but from 2000 to 2015 whoa ;; badly built , very little control of the infusion process , cheap materials everywhere ( bulkhead in compressed wood !) etc ; So when these boats go ashore ;; **** hit the fan

[pguillemin]

In the mean time everyone want more ;; space , comfort , which is weight without paying xtra ;; so it is built them and they will come
Remember ; Speed , comfort and price ; Pick any two

[jjjacq]

Rather than trying to make separate water tight compartments, I wonder if anyone has thought of simply inflating bladders (say weather balloons like) with simply compressed air bottles. The hull is breached, blow up the ballons, then head to port.

[pguillemin]

it is a good idea but not very practical , space of balloon and air tank and remote start etc; Normally foam is there for that but the stability curves seems to be amiss ; Also in case of water ingress it goes fast ; You need a huge pump to only fight a 10 square inch hole ; Best bet is a good boat

[jjjacq]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

it is a good idea but not very practical , space of balloon and air tank and remote start etc; Normally foam is there for that but the stability curves seems to be amiss ; Also in case of water ingress it goes fast ; You need a huge pump to only fight a 10 square inch hole ; Best bet is a good boat

The balloons, when deflated, have zero volume, they can be below the floor boards. The bottle need not be bigger than a diver's air bottle. When inflated, there is no water ingress, no matter how big the hole, as the inflated ballons take all the room.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

These boats - Lagoon and FP are not built to go offshore ; especially in any kind of weather ; So many things can go wrong ; laminate , structure, rigging , overload , overweight , seacock failure , Raw water intake failure on Engine or gen set ; and ass mentioned in the thread , escape hatches ; ungluing of hull windows ;; and i am sure I am missing a few

And yet thousands and thousands do be go offahorr every year, collectively traveling millions of offshore miles without incident. I used to rescue boater for a living as a Coast Guard pilot. It was very rare that we had anyone die or had to rescue anyone from a structural failure or any of the "issues" you allege without any data to support that position. On the other hand bodies failing crew members and crew error were responsible for the vast majority of offshore mishaps. If you've got data to support your position then please share it. Otherwise I'll stand by the Coast Guard accident reporting databases and my own experience with a large number of mishaps I was physically there to witness against unsupported accusations from someone who has physically been present at how many offshore mishaps scenes again?

[pguillemin]

hello ; I did not understand all you wrote but yes , Yes on two points , I am a captain by trade and have been at sea most of my life - and building boats ; Large and small ; So I have seen failures on production multihulls , Lots of them ; And yes on the other points ; I imported the FP in the US for 10 years and we sold quite a lot ; Most of them - starting with infusion - failed; Believe me I know ; I was taken to court for that because the builder bailed out of warranty ; So I defintively know what I am talking about ; Check the reports on multihulls sinking ; Sometimes it is human error but most it is not

[pguillemin]

Originally Posted by jjjacq

The balloons, when deflated, have zero volume, they can be below the floor boards. The bottle need not be bigger than a diver's air bottle. When inflated, there is no water ingress, no matter how big the hole, as the inflated ballons take all the room.

I understand but still it will be difficult for the ballons to conform to the cabin shape especially if the breach is below the water line ; Right now there is a soft plug that you can pull thru the hull ( umbrella kind ) or some epoxy and foam you can inject under high pressure even from the outside ;; or the water resistant putty , or or the old tchnic to bring a sail over the hole and let the pressure and the speed reduce the water flow until you can nail some ply from the inside ; But I am sure your balloons have a future

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by Happ

Could have been a thru hull as well or a hose connected to it.



Why are you assuming the worse?



If you don't like Multi's don't buy one. At the very least don't start spreading false narratives about things you know nothing about.

I guess you haven’t read all the full thread. Yes, you are correct, I don’t know what caused this specific failure. I have spoken to the San Juan coast guard to gather more info and also to the charter operator both without getting any more specifics.

However, this boat and a large number of cats have escape hatches which have recall notices because of catastrophic failure potential. My message is that if you have a cat with a Goiot escape hatches, this incident should be a wake up call to deal with the hatch.

Why do I care??? Because this happened to me on the same model boat offshore. I was very lucky and found the problem early and was able to fix it to get to port, but it scared me and I have been working hard to get to people to fix their hatches.

Do you have a Lagoon or a boat with a Goiot hatch? If so, secure it so the lens doesn’t leave the boat.