Expected costs of a 9 year old Lagoon 400

[Shrew]

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule. A 10 year old boat isn't old, but be prepared for things to require repair and replacement. You can $100 yourself to death on a boat and $1,000 bills are very common.

You can go months without spending any real money. My Genny, Fridge and bow thruster all died within months of each other. If occassionally digging up a few thousand dollars with no guarantee that you're not going to need a few thousand for something else makes you a little quesy......Like Kenomac said "Maybe owning a boat isn't for you".

[dakno]

Geez, Rich and Helen...I guess the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Well my experience with my 7 year old boat with 240 hours was totally different for me, thank Neptune for that. Hopefully you have done 3 years worth of work at 1 time and you can sit back and enjoy now.

[scarlet]

So we are closing today or Monday on a 9 year old Lagoon. We had a very thorough inspection last week that lasted over 6 hours. The boat surveyed out like a 2 year old boat and was very well cared for. There were only a handful of things that the inspector saw that may need addressing. And they were all things to "watch". The cushions were the only large things that needs to be replaced and that is really a choice. There was one house battery that works but it's nearing the end of it's life... Other than that it was only switches.. Lightbulbs.. an inexpensive value.. that sort of stuff. Unless something catastrophic happens... There was nothing that is anywhere near needing replacing. Get a good survey... And, then keep it in good repair. There will eventually be things to replace... But I seriously don't that you need to drop $300,000 at a 10 year mark. And no.... Buying a new boat, in my opinion, is stupid. They are outrageously priced... Depreciate very quickly... And often times you get better equipment on a well maintained used boat.

[CatNewBee]

We bought a 5yo L400S2, we spend some money on the refit, maintenance and repairs. Even after a good survey some items will fail and will need attention.

We calculated to spend about 50k for marina fees, refit and upgrades in the first two years and hit the mark almost exactly.

It is very individual what you consider necessary.

We needed to replace the wind sensor (defect after the survey) , the chart plotter (touch screen cannot callibrate properly, defective), we installed the old one now as a second plotter in the salon, some maintenance and repairs like impeller changes, oil service, bottom paint, new cushions, new matresses, toilet seats, decalcification of the hoses, cleaning the water tanks, fixing a saltwater pump, new batteries, (upgrade to lfp) galley refit with removing propane (you may need to replace all propane hoses and valves after 10 years according to regulations) , solar install, electric system rework were upgrades included in the total costs, marina fees for two winters, one on the hard, one at the dock, new parasailor sail with according deck hardware, bimini repair, outboard repair, new sheets for the genoa and main sail, new EPIRB, PLB, Life vests, weather gear">foul weather gear, handheld VHF, USB outlets, replacing of a joke valve, replacing Water filters, water maker maintenance and conservation for the winter, fixing the water heater, insurance costs, fuel, servicing the life raft, new flares, first aid kit, registration fees, reprogramming of the MMSI numbers in the VHF and AIS...

You need to be a handy man or youll pay for all this stuff to be done.

You need a budget for repairs and expenses around the boat. 10% is a lot, but it includes running costs, repairs and upgrades, part of it are consumables and normal costs of ownership. You wont get your money back on a resale, but you may maintain the boat value.

250k is a good price for a 400 owners version with lots of features installed and in good shape, even after 10 years.

[marcmmmm]

Well I hope you checked for rot underneath the mast? this is a common problem on L400. Lagoon recognizes it and will pay if you are the original owner. You have to look underneath the water tanks. Another problem is t he cone clutches on the SD50 sail drives. They will slip. Google these items you will be amazed at what your surveyor missed.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by marcmmmm

Well I hope you checked for rot underneath the mast? this is a common problem on L400. Lagoon recognizes it and will pay if you are the original owner. You have to look underneath the water tanks. Another problem is t he cone clutches on the SD50 sail drives. They will slip. Google these items you will be amazed at what your surveyor missed.

The watertank issue was addressed by the surveyor and the holes drilled afterwards, no issues there, the mast step is a problem, keep the draining hole clean, the sd60 are working at that time and still do, but I am pepared for possible issues.

Another problem may be falling out escape windows. Will address this before the Atlantic crossing.

[nortonscove]

I just look at my boat as I do my house. I work on the things that concern me. I'm not going replacing perfectly good stuff because someone on a forum has assigned a random number to the years when things need to be replaced. But then there's the people that keep the economy running and the landfills piling up with the kind of thinking.

[marcmmmm]

OK on the SD50s working now. However, it's not like you will gradually notice them not working. One or both will just stop working, in other words the cone clutch will just start slipping. I always plan and hope for the best, in this case, experience teaches me to recommend getting them fixed before you encounter any problems. I'm speaking from personal experience here where my starboard cone clutch was slipping when I was taking the boat out of a 50 wide canal in FTL over to the Marina where I had to use the port engine to navigate between $5M boats, current, wind, docking etc. - you know the drill. Good judgement comes from experience and much of that comes from bad judgement.

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

I just look at my boat as I do my house. I work on the things that concern me. I'm not going replacing perfectly good stuff because someone on a forum has assigned a random number to the years when things need to be replaced. But then there's the people that keep the economy running and the landfills piling up with the kind of thinking.

Brilliant!! best advice yet!

[ozsailer]

Gday Chapel,
I think I can help here. I have owned two Lagoons, the first ten years old and heaven forbid an ex charter 2004 Lagoon 410 S2 for cabin vessel. Yep need lots of things replacing but from day one we could go cruising with no changes. Just enjoyed the boat and worked out really what needed to be replacing and what could wait. Over the years we replaced the electronics, by choice not by need, New main and new engines. The final price we paid for the boat was very cheap, way lower than market value and factored in these prices to what we offered. Loved that boat but we found we wanted a larger boat for family.
Today we own a 2007 Lagoon 440. We were fortunate here in that prior to us buying the boat it had a new main (never used) full set of electronics, All new cushions throughout boat, a hardtop for the flybridge less than 12 months old and full covers and all batteres were replaced in last year.
Over the six months of buying the boat I found the solar was insufficient for the job and have upgraded them and several small issues all of which have not stopped us using the boat - just added to the wish list of things to do.
In you case and knowing the Lagoon 400's I could not imagine having to replace to much unless you wish to add or ultimately update.
As with any boat there are normal wear and tear costs associated with ownership and these also need to be considered but are different to replacing worn item on a boat your looking at.
Just my two cents worth.


Greg H
Lagoon 440
Oz

[chakil]

Thank you all , great thoughts..
This weekend we found another 2013 Lagoon 39 2 cbn version.
Very nice boat but not loaded,no AC ,small handheld generator,no panels.But its nice. It feels new and upgraded compared to 400. I searched the forum and could not find any common issues with 39 or calls from factory.
The only thing is the price , they ask for 265.000€. When comparing to Lagoon 400 loaded I think its over priced but owner is not open for any discount.
Would you choose the 400 or the 39?

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by chakil

Thank you all , great thoughts..
This weekend we found another 2013 Lagoon 39 2 cbn version.
Very nice boat but not loaded,no AC ,small handheld generator,no panels.But its nice. It feels new and upgraded compared to 400. I searched the forum and could not find any common issues with 39 or calls from factory.
The only thing is the price , they ask for 265.000€. When comparing to Lagoon 400 loaded I think its over priced but owner is not open for any discount.
Would you choose the 400 or the 39?

L39 as two cabin version? Do it have two master heads, or what is in the second hull forward?

Is the 400 a owners version, 3 berth / 2 heads?

the 400 is much larger, she is not only 2ft longer, but also 2ft beamier, there is no pole in the middle of the salon, and has lot more storage, better for living on board, but it depends on the condition she is and what you want to do with it.

Hard to tell, for us the 39 was out of scope, as is the new 40 too. Great for short trips or 1 to 2 week vacances, but not suitable for full time living. But the dessign of the 39 is more modern.

[chakil]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

L39 as two cabin version? Do it have two master heads, or what is in the second hull forward?

Is the 400 a owners version, 3 berth / 2 heads?

the 400 is much larger, she is not only 2ft longer, but also 2ft beamier, there is no pole in the middle of the salon, and has lot more storage, better for living on board, but it depends on the condition she is and what you want to do with it.

Hard to tell, for us the 39 was out of scope, as is the new 40 too. Great for short trips or 1 to 2 week vacances, but not suitable for full time living. But the dessign of the 39 is more modern.

It has two master heads. And thats why we liked it so much.
We want it for liveabord , we checked 38 before but did not like it soo much, the 39 is beamier.And mooring costs for 39 is much more less because of that 2ft thats another thing.
On the other side , I agree with you the space in Lagoon 400 is great but this saildrive issue and the rot at the mast is what everybody is talking about.

[Fore and Aft]

The thing with that sort of attitude NortonsCove is that when you come to sell your boat everything is worn out or looking tired and people think your boats a project. I survey way to many boats where everything has been maintained but never upgraded and either the owner takes a big hit in the price or they finally have to update everything. I am not saying replace something just because it’s old but things like upholstery, sails, engine room insulation, engines (maybe not replace but service injectors, maybe new coat of paint etc) all have a visible life span. When I survey a boat a quick look at these items tell me what type of owner I am dealing with. The best thing about replacing these items slowly is the cost is carried over a number of years.
CatNewBee is right in saying it is an individual thing. For me our yacht is always being upgraded while the house just gets ignored.
Cheers

[CatNewBee]

I consider every boat, even a brand new one, as a project, except you buy it to put it in charter management. There will be individual things you want retrofitted, improverd, personalized.

Do your survey, check the boats out and make an excel sheet of your desired upgrades and things you want to fix or upgrade. Then set priorities, what is essential, necessary or nice to have, make a budget plan, it does not mean, you have to do all thos before sailing, just keep the list updated, and eventually do some of the work while cruising to improve your new home.

The boot does not need to be perfect at the beginning , just seaworhy and safe. Some of the points on your lists will fade away and never will be realized, some new items will show up. A newer boat is usually in a better shape, but a full equipped larger vessel in working condition might be better for living, and also a lot easier to be modified to yout needs.

At least for me it is harder to rip out brand new stuff to make it right for me, while a slighly weared and old thing is more inspirational to refits and upgrades. The nice rounded wood furniture work of older boats is much better than the sharp corner IKEA ply laminate stuff they screw in nowadays, also much safer in high seas.