Does insurance require sails less than 10 Year old?

[tsenator]

Huh ?!


I've had 3 sailboats & never had my insurance company (Boat US and Gieco) ask about the sails - ever .


When I got the boats they did ask for a survey if it was older than a few years old - But if it passed survey they never asked for standing rigging replaced if over 10 years old.



This insurance is for whole coastal Eastern US

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by tanre

Recently heard that all insurance companies require your sails to be less than 10 years old.

Have not come across that one yet but the insurance underwriters are changing faster than ever before and I'm not at all surprised. Hold on to your wallets guys, insurance is going to get a whole lot more expensive with more limitations in very short order. These guys have taken a beating and they are not charities.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by tsenator

This insurance is for whole coastal Eastern US

My insurers only require a rig age under 10 years for water sailing">blue water sailing. No limitations on coastal sailing.

I ameliorate the cash flow of a total rig change by replacing one or two wires each year. Since I have 10 wires, age of rig is always under 10 years with no nasty surprises.

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by tanre

Recently heard that all insurance companies require your sails to be less than 10 years old. Was wondering if this is true or if there might be some companies that don't require it, or if maybe it depends on if a crossing is under way.


Thanks all!

Never had that request in all 3 sailboats I have purchased and insured. My current sailboat has 14 year old sails and have plenty of life in them. Replacement cost is ~$10,000 and I have other projects to spend that money on before I purchase new sails.

Insurers have only requested I have a current survey to demonstrate the boat is seaworthy and void of repair issues

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Have not come across that one yet but the insurance underwriters are changing faster than ever before and I'm not at all surprised. Hold on to your wallets guys, insurance is going to get a whole lot more expensive with more limitations in very short order. These guys have taken a beating and they are not charities.

This certainly seems to be the case if sailing forum anecdotes can be taken as a reasonable barometer. The number of “prices up, restrictions increased” posts I’ve seen here and over a SN seem to be on the increase.

It’s interesting that these mostly seem focused in the American markets. I just renewed at a cheaper rate up here in Canada, and other anecdotes from European markets don’t suggest any big changes.

Is this US change all to do with recent hurricane damage, or is something else compounding the American insurance markets?

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by tsenator

Huh ?!


I've had 3 sailboats & never had my insurance company (Boat US and Gieco) ask about the sails - ever .

Ditto...

[Mr B]

I insured my 34 foot sailing cat last week, Full Comprehensive, Wet Berth,
2003 Gemini 105MC,
$1600-00 with no survey, For $150,000-00, Excess of $1000-00
So its a 16 year old boat,

But shopping around, I was quoted up to just over 4 grand and only after an out of water survey, And rigging inspection by a qualified Rigger,

Im in Australia,

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I insured my 34 foot sailing cat last week, Full Comprehensive, Wet Berth,
2003 Gemini 105MC,
$1600-00 with no survey, For $150,000-00, Excess of $1000-00
So its a 16 year old boat,

But shopping around, I was quoted up to just over 4 grand and only after an out of water survey, And rigging inspection by a qualified Rigger,

Im in Australia,

So one can assume Aus $?

I insure for NZ$150k, fully comprehensive, NZ$500 excess, swing mooring, 33 year old boat, premium with no survey is NZ$1350, local sailing. Add $450 if we go offshore.

Australia appears more expensive.

[kev_rm]

Unrelated to sails but I recently had an interaction with a Chubb underwriter on my new-to-me boat. They asked that I fix all survey recommendations within 90 days. The survey included recommendations for things like broken speaker wires and inoperative hand pumps in the galley and to register the vhf mmsi. I asked for clarification if they really meant "all" or did they mean the first five that the surveyor called out as a priority. The answer was "all". I cancelled and went with another carrier.

[Poche]

The way I look at it, accept your own risk. Get dockside insurance for accidental sinking or damage to the marina unless you worry too much about damaging another boat while out sailing.

[petermjdavies]

Our UK policy is very straightforward.... It will NOT cover....

sails split by the wind or blown away while hoisted or unfurled, unless the spars that they are attached to are damaged at the same time

Sails also not covered under new for old


Your Insurers will not reduce the amount paid to You in respect of Your claim if they replace old materials with new because of the age and condition of the item concerned, except for: i) sails; ii) protective covers and canopies; iii) running and standing rigging; iv) batteries; v) Specified Equipment; vi) Personal Effects 1

[JPA Cate]

To the OP:

Sails need maintenance and/or repair.

Look for an honest sailmaker. That one will tell you if it is beyond reasonable repair. Others just want to sell you a new sail, so your selection is important, and can actually be a good relationship, but usually not the cheapest.

We've been fortunate for years with our sailmaker selection. I wish you good fortuene,
as well.

Ann

[TabbyCat]

Recently heard that all insurance companies require your sails to be less than 10 years old. Was wondering if this is true or if there might be some companies that don't require it, or if maybe it depends on if a crossing is under way.

Wow, there are some interesting comments in this thread! I'll take a stab at answering it, since I'm an independent agent for a large number of the reputable marine insurance companies.

Markel Jackline: Rig is covered. If your boat is over 10 years old, they'll want a rigging inspection or proof that you've replaced the rigging withitn the last 3 years. Sails and canvas covers lost in or damaged by a tropical storm are not covered. (Troical Storm = named and numberd by NOAA)

Markel Helmsman: covered, We wil pay for epairs to replacement of the folowing lost or damaged property on an actual cash value basis sails and protective covers of any type;

ACE: sails & dodgers covered, but subject to depreciation

Concept Special Risks: Loss and/or damage to sails, sail covers, external canvases, including but not limited to Bimini Tops, arising from a NAMED WINDSTORM unless properly removed and stowed. (if damage is not from a named windsotmr, then coverd, but subject to depreciation)

Windsor Mount Joy: covered, at Actual Cash Value on their Skipper Policy

Pantaenius: Sails and canvas damaged or lost solely due to forseeable wind and weather conditions is excluded.

Travelers: covered, but subject to depreciation

YachtInsure: Exclusions: Loss or damage to sails, sail covers, outriggers, external canvases, including but not limited to Bimini tops, unless properly removed and stowed. Sails, Bimini tops and Outrigers left in place during a named windstorm will be excluded along with any damage associated or caused by the sails, Bimini tops and Outriggers and associated frames or rigging.

Geico (GMIC): covered (not excluded). Subject to a 5% deductible, which may be reduced to 3% if at he time of ls, an “insured boat” is complety on land firmly ashed toin-ground achors, footings or simlar in-ground struces and the canvs and/or sail re moved from the exterior

So some companies do cover sails at Actual Cash Value (depreciation), while others don't.

Hope that helps

[TabbyCat]

So one can assume Aus $?

I insure for NZ$150k, fully comprehensive, NZ$500 excess, swing mooring, 33 year old boat, premium with no survey is NZ$1350, local sailing. Add $450 if we go offshore.

Australia appears more expensive.

CassidyNZ,
No survey on a 33 year old boat?! Are you perhaps "insured" with E.W?

[TabbyCat]

Is this US change all to do with recent hurricane damage, or is something else compounding the American insurance markets?

Marine Insurance companies make money two ways:
1) Underwriting good risks = charging enough premium to cover the cost of the claims paid out. In many years, the underwriting profit is actually negative, as underwriters compete for new customers.
2) Investment = the company invests your premium dollars in the market and the return on those investment generates income, enough to offset the losses in the underwriting side of the business.
So with either a period of bad weather and the associatd increased claims activity or an economic downturn, the rates are likely to go up. When both conditions exist, then the rates are likely rise significantly.