Catamaran Capsize.

[chrisr]

a very sad incident and as said before...all sympathy goes out to all involved

however as an owner of a similar size catamaran, i am enormously frustrated (although not surprised) that there has been ZERO reports of investigation into how this terrible tragedy happened.

i have always taught that the most important thing about any accident at sea is to LEARN HOW IT HAPPENED so that futuer generations can avoid the same mistakes.

yet here we are nearly 6 months later, and nothing...zero - apart from some speculation (some good, some ridiculous) on various websites

my guess is that either an insurance company has told those who know to clam up, and / or the authorities cannot find someone to fine so don't care enough to investigate.

either way, it totally sucks nothing is being done to investigate and report what happened...and why

i'll get off my soapbox now

cheers,

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by chrisr

a very sad incident and as said before...all sympathy goes out to all involved

however as an owner of a similar size catamaran, i am enormously frustrated (although not surprised) that there has been ZERO reports of investigation into how this terrible tragedy happened.

i have always taught that the most important thing about any accident at sea is to LEARN HOW IT HAPPENED so that futuer generations can avoid the same mistakes.

yet here we are nearly 6 months later, and nothing...zero - apart from some speculation (some good, some ridiculous) on various websites

my guess is that either an insurance company has told those who know to clam up, and / or the authorities cannot find someone to fine so don't care enough to investigate.

either way, it totally sucks nothing is being done to investigate and report what happened...and why

i'll get off my soapbox now

cheers,

Totally agree, You learn from your mistakes and others as well,
Makes you think about what can go wrong and prepare for it, if it ever happens to you,

[ozsailer]

Chris R, I can guarantee you it has not been swept under the carpet or kept quiet by the insurance companies. Here in New South Wales (Australia) there is a excellent system of investigation by State Police, in this case the water police. In these cases it is usally a high ranking detective who prepares a breif of evidence. This can be a very complex and can take considerable time. It will include such things as witness statements from survivors, the boat builder, weather and sea experts, rescue personnel and a whole range of other details.
Once the breif of evidence is completed it will normally go before the State Coroner (magistrate/judge). An enquiry will normally be held by the Coroner to hear all the evidence to determine cause and if required attribute blame. If criminal conduct is identified the enquiry will be suspended till such time as any criminal matter is finalised before the matter is is returned to the Coroners Court. The coroner on hearing all the evidence will then make a dertimination and may rule on recomendations to stop this occuring again.
Its sound long and convoluted but has been proven over time to work quite well. Most coronial enquiries are open to the public and normally the results are made public. I hope that spreads some light on what goes on behind the scenes.



Greg H
lagoon 440

[conchaway]

Originally Posted by Factor

Yes and two people were saved because they were able to hang onto the Capsized boat when it didn't sink.

Now, YOU know how to turn a negative into a positive!

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by chrisr

a very sad incident and as said before...all sympathy goes out to all involved

however as an owner of a similar size catamaran, i am enormously frustrated (although not surprised) that there has been ZERO reports of investigation into how this terrible tragedy happened.

i have always taught that the most important thing about any accident at sea is to LEARN HOW IT HAPPENED so that futuer generations can avoid the same mistakes.

yet here we are nearly 6 months later, and nothing...zero - apart from some speculation (some good, some ridiculous) on various websites

my guess is that either an insurance company has told those who know to clam up, and / or the authorities cannot find someone to fine so don't care enough to investigate.

either way, it totally sucks nothing is being done to investigate and report what happened...and why

i'll get off my soapbox now

cheers,

People died. There will be a coroner's inquest.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by conchaway

Now, YOU know how to turn a negative into a positive!

Whereas nothing positive could be found from this:

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Chris R, I can guarantee you it has not been swept under the carpet or kept quiet by the insurance companies. Here in New South Wales (Australia) there is a excellent system of investigation by State Police, in this case the water police. In these cases it is usally a high ranking detective who prepares a breif of evidence. This can be a very complex and can take considerable time. It will include such things as witness statements from survivors, the boat builder, weather and sea experts, rescue personnel and a whole range of other details.
Once the breif of evidence is completed it will normally go before the State Coroner (magistrate/judge). An enquiry will normally be held by the Coroner to hear all the evidence to determine cause and if required attribute blame. If criminal conduct is identified the enquiry will be suspended till such time as any criminal matter is finalised before the matter is is returned to the Coroners Court. The coroner on hearing all the evidence will then make a dertimination and may rule on recomendations to stop this occuring again.
Its sound long and convoluted but has been proven over time to work quite well. Most coronial enquiries are open to the public and normally the results are made public. I hope that spreads some light on what goes on behind the scenes.



Greg H
lagoon 440

thanks greg. i understand the system, and wish i could share your faith in it
so far i've been completely unable to find out (a) who is leading the investigation (b) at what stage the investigation is at (c) when will a report will go to the coroner
in my experience these things disappear into a black hole for years and by the time a report appears on the 135th page of some annual summary it is forgotten.
i know i'm a cynic but there are good reasons. hope i'm proven wrong on this occasion, but i doubt it
cheers,

ps we're heading back to the lake in time for wangi fireworks. will you be around ? can catch up for a beer or 3 ?

[mglonnro]

Any news about any reports or investigations into this?

[Yihang]

https://www.mysailing.com.au/cruisin...-killing-three

Looks like they found it a few months later floating 600km away. News reporting is almost useless when it comes to sailing yachts, terms like 'the catamaran crashed' and 'The tender also capsized' were used in some of the reporting.

I would much rather be in a demasted mono than a capsized cat with sewage and diesel floating around. You would need to have a tether near the escape hatch so you can stay with the boat when you exist onto the slippery bridge deck. Seems like the safest place would be the tramp, so the escape hatch probably should be located beneath it.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by Yihang

https://www.mysailing.com.au/cruisin...-killing-three

Looks like they found it a few months later floating 600km away. News reporting is almost useless when it comes to sailing yachts, terms like 'the catamaran crashed' and 'The tender also capsized' were used in some of the reporting.

I would much rather be in a demasted mono than a capsized cat with sewage and diesel floating around. You would need to have a tether near the escape hatch so you can stay with the boat when you exist onto the slippery bridge deck. Seems like the safest place would be the tramp, so the escape hatch probably should be located beneath it.

the underside of our bridge deck is non-skid

we also have 2 hardpoints for attaching tethers

it's also painted fluro orange

i'd much rather be sitting on a nice buoyant catamaran sized raft waiting for the cavalry, than either desperately trying to keep 10mt of lead afloat or praying my death-raft doesn't disintegrate

each to his own i guess...

but i agree with you about the news reporting - just abysmal...

cheers,

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by chrisr

the underside of our bridge deck is non-skid

we also have 2 hardpoints for attaching tethers

it's also painted fluro orange

i'd much rather be sitting on a nice buoyant catamaran sized raft waiting for the cavalry, than either desperately trying to keep 10mt of lead afloat or praying my death-raft doesn't disintegrate

each to his own i guess...

but i agree with you about the news reporting - just abysmal...

cheers,

Yeh, a nicely setup cat with tethers and a safe way to move about from tramp to inside the hulls for resupply is much better than a life raft. But most of that need to be added on aftermarket which I doubt most people ever do.

On the flip side a solid monohull with thick ballistic glass windows, bank vault doors and integral ballast like a garcia exploration is also a nice life raft should you loose the mast somehow.

All in all, there are nice mono and nice cats. The only downside is we usually can't afford both.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Yihang

https://www.mysailing.com.au/cruisin...-killing-three

Looks like they found it a few months later floating 600km away. News reporting is almost useless when it comes to sailing yachts, terms like 'the catamaran crashed' and 'The tender also capsized' were used in some of the reporting.

I would much rather be in a demasted mono than a capsized cat with sewage and diesel floating around. You would need to have a tether near the escape hatch so you can stay with the boat when you exist onto the slippery bridge deck. Seems like the safest place would be the tramp, so the escape hatch probably should be located beneath it.

That second picture, Looks like the dinghy upside down and still attached to the hulls,

My Cat upside down, I have the drive leg to hang onto,
The dinghy is right beside it, Undo the ropes and I have a dinghy to climb into,
The dinghy would be clear of any obstruction, Upside down, Very easy to flip it over so that its the right way up, Even in the wildest weather,

Might I enquire how does sewerage effluent and diesel come out of sealed upside down tanks,
Its impossible,

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Mr B

That second picture, Looks like the dinghy upside down and still attached to the hulls,

My Cat upside down, I have the drive leg to hang onto,
The dinghy is right beside it, Undo the ropes and I have a dinghy to climb into,
The dinghy would be clear of any obstruction, Upside down, Very easy to flip it over so that its the right way up, Even in the wildest weather,

Might I enquire how does sewerage effluent and diesel come out of sealed upside down tanks,
Its impossible,

In big sea's with things washing around the hull it's not unimaginable that hose clamps fail.....The breather hoses and deck discharge hoses would now be underwater.

I'm a cat guy. But some situations are more suited to an aluminium lifeboat like a garcia exploration. I'm in my thirties and I would not fancy my chances trying not to slip off an upturned cat if not tethered on. In big seas and freezing water.

Let's not turn this into a cat vs mono thread. Would love to have several of both. Like I said the biggest issue with boats is we can't afford to have more of them.

[chrisr]

since this thread has been revived, i've just gota take the opportunity to say how disappointed and down-right angry i am that 16 months after this tragedy there is still no report or analysis available as to how it happened.

we all have our theories, but it is plain stupid that we are prevented from learning what went wrong, so it can be avoided in future

there can be no reason other than plain bureaucratic bumbling and B/S and it's pathetic !

cheers,

[JPA Cate]

Maybe the people charged with investigating the issue were too busy responding to the increased cases of domestic violence we keep reading about.....

Ann