Can you have Comfort, Value and Performance in a Catamaran?

[Astroman]

too fast for this family of 6!

[GTom]

What about chartering them before making a decision?

[Astroman]

Originally Posted by GTom

What about chartering them before making a decision?

great advice. I'll look into it!

[Tupaia]

A proper sailing cat.


https://www.multihullcentre.com/dazc...e/dazcat-1495/


Good performance, no frills, good price.

[Hartings]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

A proper sailing cat.


https://www.multihullcentre.com/dazc...e/dazcat-1495/


Good performance, no frills, good price.

He has 4 kids and puts a premium on comfort.

[ozsailer]

Gday Astroman, just curious, what do you classify as a performance catamaran and what do you want exactly in a Cat. Most of the modern Cruising cats will easily do 8 to 10 knots very comfortably. Talk to power boaters and actually ask them what speed they cruise at. Many will say between 8 to 10 knots as it gives them comfort in a seaway. Performance "may" also mean greater experience is required from the crew to keep the boat performing to specs. The faster you go the quicker things happen and the higher the level of concentration required.
Just some things to ponder. You want to cruise - then cruise in safety, comfort and harmony with the family.


Greg H
lagoon 440
oz

[Hartings]

Originally Posted by Astroman

Antares/Maverick are 44' so skipped them (4 kids!). Discovery a bit high end.



I like the Seawind 1600 and Balance. Both boats are years outs for delivery and not much on market.



So, looks like Privilege and Knysna are good options for non production cats.

Seawind 1600 and Balance are relatively new boats so you wont see them on the market. I would say Privilege is as high end as the Discovery but only 5 of the latter have been built so you will struggle to find one of them.
Contact Knysna as they keep a close relationship with their owners and might know who is a potential seller. As I said previously a vast majority of their 500’s are 3 cabin versions which won’t meet your criteria.
You should definitely be chartering before contemplating buying.

[NevilleCat]

what about this?
https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...tamaran/234934

[Rigamarole]

Originally Posted by conchaway

Someone told me that, as long as you don't plan to ever challenge the sea, any catamaran is great.

Originally Posted by smj

And once you get some experience you can think for yourself and not rely on what someone told you.

Wow, that is hilarious!!

[QUOTE=Astroman;3077016]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I guess I don't want to be stuck at 5-7 knots on long passages. Goal is comfortably sail in light wind. At 15 knots could you get 8-10 knot? Shaving a week from Panama to Marquesas is $$ in fuel, food, comfort.

What will save you a week, given your parameters, is most likely luck of the wind and sail selection. It probably won't be the boat itself. And diesel will certainly be the least expensive thing you have with the boat - so low as to not be a factor.

Yeloya gave you some suggestions and I'd really follow them as he has sailed more different catamarans than anyone I know and works on all of them. But one thing he told me many years ago is that he would rather sail at 3 knots than motor at 6. At the time, I didn't feel I had the time to do that. This year that changed for some reason and I liked it. So, IMO, I'd focus on a boat that will make your wife and kids happy and interested in what you want to do. It may not be the fastest boat, or even a fast boat, but if she doesn't have to manually pump her poo and they have a killer tender to head off to explore the land around them, it will be better than gaining a knot of speed.

Here is an example of slow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IW-WZb-sF0

And here is an example of fast (for us).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiaNUuyOY5I&t=117s

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Hartings

He has 4 kids and puts a premium on comfort.

Can be configured for 6-10 berths, unless there is a requirement for 5 cabins.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Astroman

...
I read (and looked at specs!) that these boats are heavy and not going to move too well.

...

In December of last year I delivered my first SABA from Ft. Laud to St. Thomas. To understand my perspective, I am a monohull sailor who moves cats and powerboats. My personal boat is a Tartan-33.

The Saba was a little over one year old and was pretty much stock. The vessel did have a Code Zero, but being a delivery we did not use it. In my opinion the Saba sailed very well- even going to windward. Without using the leeward engine. Was she as nimble as a 50+ monohull? No, but that is the whole catamaran trade-off.

Take a look at the Saba's polars, they will provide objective proof of the boats abilities. The only 'ding' is the usual catamaran blindspot of behind the jib. So be sure to have and use AIS when sailing offshore.

[Tupaia]

Shaving any time off an ocean passage is a bit of a red herring. A sailing boat is a wonderful way to travel but a lousy form of transport. Long passages are a small part of "cruising". With the family on board you are more likely to be concerned with not breaking anything than squeezing the last ounce of performance out of the boat. A cat will in most cases be faster and more comfortable than a mono but unless you are in "racing" mode it won't be that much faster and the difference between a slow cat and a fast cat in non racing mode on a downwind trade-wind route will be even less.

Unless your kids are competent sailors, you and your partner will essentially be single handing, one on watch, one off watch, consider the layout if the weather is s**t will you feel comfortable being separated on a fly-bridge, reefing an oversized "performance" mainsail in a storm or handling a mini- main-sail and a big roller genoa standing at the mast in the cockpit of a Prout. (Before everybody jumps in extolling the virtues of flybridges or Prouts I am just making a point about things to consider).

Despite all the propaganda offshore "performance" sailing, especially across oceans, is the realm of single handers, ultra keen couples or fully crewed yachts, families in the main will have other priorities, fishing, spotting dolphins, teaching the kids navigation, meteorology, astronomy and how to use a ham radio. On the other hand nobody ever wished their boat sailed slower. So find a cat with the "least" accommodation that meets your needs then look for one that is within your budget, chances are it will be likely be the fastest. Remember performance enhancing carbon fibre is very expensive and so is magnificent hardwood joinery and teak decks but the latter do nothing to enhance performance and are just "more" maintenance.

Many inexperienced cruisers overestimate the "stuff" they think they will need and then give up because their boat is too large or too complicated or too scary.

Try out a few different cats, old and new, test sail (in horrible weather), offer to crew, charter and discover for yourself what works for you. Basing a massive purchase on the hearsay of others is not always the best strategy.

[jmh2002]

Yes if you read across most of the posts in many of the catamaran threads then it quickly becomes apparent that most boats, most of the time, seem not to be sailed much faster than around 10 knots for various reasons:

- the boat won't go faster
- it's too difficult to make it go faster
- it's too expensive to make it go faster
- it may become unsafe to go faster
- it may become uncomfortable to go faster
- etc, etc

In any case, a maximum of 10kn seems to be about the sweet spot that most cruising catamarans are sailed to, most the time.

And remember that is a maximum, not an average. A lot are also going much slower too for various reasons.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Like this perhaps? Isn't this how everyone cruises, at 10-13 knots upwind?

Most cruisers would say he's doing 8-9 knots, since there is no way in hell they would hang a hull out of the water like that.



I flew a hull with my PDQ 34 a few times in controlled conditions just for the fun of it, and 8-9 knots to weather is quite realistic. But that is also really hard on the nerves and completely outside the concept of cruising. I considered 7-8 knots to weather to be the practical upper limit, and that with someone at the helm. Also consider that most boats are cruised by couples. That Gunboat has a full pro crew on board, not a loan person on watch while the other sleeps. A big performance multi can be really easy for one person to handle... right up until something goes wrong or things get nasty. Then what? You want a more sedate boat or more crew with a honed skill set. How hard you can drive a multi depends on the talent on board.



The thing about performance boats is that to safely take advantage of that performance means you must be a multihull sailor. The boats are more powered up and pressed hard, things can go wrong. It's up to the skipper to understand this and know when to slow down.



Once you get out of Corsairs and multihull sport boats, the market is really focused on comfort, and specifically, comfort at anchor. A place you can entertain and hang out in comfort. They want to be pampered. That's what people are more willing to pay for. That and chartering are what's driving the big multihull boom, not the need for speed.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Snore

In December of last year I delivered my first SABA from Ft. Laud to St. Thomas. To understand my perspective, I am a monohull sailor who moves cats and powerboats. My personal boat is a Tartan-33.



The Saba was a little over one year old and was pretty much stock. The vessel did have a Code Zero, but being a delivery we did not use it. In my opinion the Saba sailed very well- even going to windward. Without using the leeward engine. Was she as nimble as a 50+ monohull? No, but that is the whole catamaran trade-off.



Take a look at the Saba's polars, they will provide objective proof of the boats abilities. The only 'ding' is the usual catamaran blindspot of behind the jib. So be sure to have and use AIS when sailing offshore.

Would the Saba have been as nimble as a Morgan Out Island 51? Probably, and I would consider both to be focused on comfort and not performance.
The AIS doesn’t take the place of a good watch. If there’s a blind spot behind the jib then either move around to see past the blind spot and if that’s hard to do then it’s a major design problem. Possibly order a jib with a high cut clew?