60 foot Catamaran for Couple?

[HBrew]

I sail an Outremer 51. On the face of it, quite a large boat, but waterline is not a definitive determinant of the effort required to manage a boat. My boat is lighter than many 45 foot cats and so the rig does not need to be huge to achieve reasonable performance. So, actually, I consider my boat quite manageable for singlehanded sailing and my wife and I can handle most situations.

Finding a place that can haul out my boat can be a challenge, especially in areas that are very monohull centric. Do you plan to sail in the US? You mention the southern seas. My boat is currently in the Marquesas and has been for a while thanks to COVID. It is hauled out. If you had a 60’ cat there you would have zero options for hauling out.


I have spoken to owners of the larger 5X (58’) and the truth is that it’s just not for everyone. Can you sail it just you and your wife? Yes. Is it scary to do so at times? Yes.


I’m not sure from your post whether you prioritize performance or living space. If its the former, a longer waterline with light displacement gives you a great sailing experience and a manageable boat. If you are thinking about the large heavy displacement boats, I think you’ll need a crew.


As for running costs. You’ll pay more at marinas, but in my experience that’s not significant unless you plan to spend a lot of time in them. When you need to replace sails etc the costs are quite a bit higher and lines are often dyneema etc etc. So it costs more but it’s not huge. The insurance issue is real. If you don’t have a lengthy sailing resume, even getting insurance could be tough. Speak to an insurance broker.


When I was first looking for a boat, I focused on mid 40’s sized boats (I almost bought an Outremer 45). But I can say without hesitation that I am very happy that I went for the 51. I would not buy a 5X even though I stare at them lustfully when I see them. Just too much boat for my preferred approach to sailing.


I hope this helps.

[jmschmidt]

Delivered a 60' Sun Reef cat with a crew of 5 counting the owner plus wife to handle only the galley. That was about right.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

Thanks,

Valid points. Haul outs are going to be problematic for sure. Limited facilities available.

I don't see using a Marina but rarely or going to the Med ever. Some Youtubers go years on the hook. Bottom jobs can be planned out. Its the unplanned issues that make size a very real issue.

I think that Marinas are why these boats sre cheap.

Few people want to deal with a beast of a boat in tight quarters and costs soar at this size for Marina space.

Well, you and I are different. Sure, I've anchored out a lot - a whole lot in my first 7 years. But I have to say, marinas can be quite nice now and then and fortunately I can afford them. My wife likes them even more as she isn't dependent on me then. As for not going to the Med, the rest of the world is kind of boring to me, especially the living on the hook looking at palm trees for months on end cruising. No thanks.

You know, you live what sounds like a pretty comfortable life right now. Maybe before you buy the boat you should buy a pop-up trailer and head to Alaska for a few months - deep in the woods. See if your wife likes that. If so, then boating my be right for you two. But a lot of woman try their best to agree with the hubby's dream only to find it's their nightmare.

[JPA Cate]

@Palarran,

What, she didn't want to learn to handle the dinghy? Or someone never explained why she should learn?

Tsk. Tsk.

Ann

[JasonS]

Analyze your needs and then Go For It!

We bought our Manta 40, 8 years ago and began full time cruising about 16 months ago. It's two of us with rare guests on board. For us, we looked at boats 36-46ft. And after an exhaustive search, we found the right boat for us and couldn't be happier 8 years later.

But really think about what you need and want. The cost equation is just one part.

A couple challenges to consider as you go larger:

- Dock Space. Hard for all cats and harder the larger you go!
- Mast height. This was the BIGGIE for us and knocked out the 44-46 boats we looked at. We wanted a boat that would be ICW friendly, which meant a total height of less than 65'. We're at 61' with "stuff" on top! And hugely glad we're short as in our over 3,000 miles last year, quite a few "65' bridges" were at 62.5-63 due to high water/storms! We get to visit a lot of places that friends on larger cats just can't. We can move up/down the coast inside during days or even weeks friends don't want to venture out into the Atlantic.
- Draft - We draft a bit less than 4 feet. Some of the boats you may look at, may have similar drafts, but some may be 6ft+. That can really limit some cruising grounds, like the Florida Keys where we just spent 5+ months.
- Maintenance. Larger means more to maintain, potentially more difficult to get parts as larger sizes not often stocked and fewer units mean fewer available parts

With 4 full-time liveaboard, definitely somewhat larger is better. Check out the various manufacturers say from 46-60. You may find that usable interior space is not always different. ie. Our Manta's have about the same storage space as a new Outremer 51 and our 2 aft staterooms both have Queen beds. I believe the Outremer's are doubles.

That being said, I never want to race an Outremer, especially loaded with our 2 kayaks, 2 paddleboards, scuba gear, brownies hookah dive system, 4 scuba tanks, and a stateroom of other sports/water equipment!

Best of luck - enjoy the journey.

Hope to see you on the water.

Jason
SV Breathe

http://facebook.com/breathesaildive.com

[sailingchiro]

Things break!!! And it is typically the windlass in a 40 knot blow with a lee shore and 4' breaking waves on your front quarter.

Our option is to have a smaller boat but use the rest of the money for VRBO's in places we want to spend time or marina dockage.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Get a mid 40' boat that will take you and your stuff around your ideal cruising area and then give your wife some time off the boat at some pretty cool longer term rentals.

YOUR WIFE WILL WANT TO GET OFF THE BOAT for extended time. Think of 2-3 weeks on and 2-3 weeks off. You can rent more space on land than purchase boat to satisfy everyone.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by sailingchiro

Things break!!!

Everything on a boat is broken - you just don't know it yet.

And it is typically the windlass in a 40 knot blow with a lee shore and 4' breaking waves on your front quarter.

Try using a snubber and paying attention to weather.

Originally Posted by sailingchiro

.

YOUR WIFE WILL WANT TO GET OFF THE BOAT for extended time. Think of 2-3 weeks on and 2-3 weeks off. .

Your wife might
Probably because your boats too small. (-;

[celle2000]

Handling and Maintentance will both be significantly more for a 60 footer. Finding docking space,haut out yards all more difficult. My question though is - why would you need 60 foot for acouple and some occasional guests? A more modern 5-6 year old 50 footer which has already been set up for cruising might be a better bet for the money. Still big enough have system redundency and space for solar etc. Whatever you do, me and plenty others would love you join for a few passages and either work or sing for our supper.

[zeitgeist]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

I retire in 2025. Between my wife and I we have 4 million in retirement savings. Most of that is in 401k's, so pre-tax. We also have a million in Real Estate equity between two properties.

We want to take a two year sailing trip when I retire.

Just started actually looking at boats in person. New Catamarans in the 50 foot range are upwards of a million dollars.

What we have noticed is used (6 to 15 year old) 60 foot Cats going for about the same. These boats were originally 3 million (+/-) dollar boats. They tend to be in great condition and are huge. Even the condo crusiers in this range are fast, longer waterline etc.

My two questions are:

1. maintenance costs vs a used or new 50 footer? They tend to have two generators, two water makers, and other redundant systems.


Someone with big Catamaran experience - what say you??

I don't have much experience, but I've been window shopping around for cats planning into the future, and one thing I came across is charter ownership, which might fit your situation in the "readily admit I need some 'learning'" area. The idea being you buy a vessel new, the charter company makes money with it for 5 years and reduces your costs. The big plus to you is for the next 5 years you can go practice on your new vessel for 4-12 weeks out of the year, and the charter company is taking care of the loan payment, maintenance, berthing, etc.

Also, you end up with a vessel at a reduced cost.

[Augi]

I retire in 2025. Between my wife and I we have 4 million in retirement savings. Most of that is in 401k's, so pre-tax. We also have a million in Real Estate equity between two properties.

We want to take a two year sailing trip when I retire.

Just started actually looking at boats in person. New Catamarans in the 50 foot range are upwards of a million dollars.

What we have noticed is used (6 to 15 year old) 60 foot Cats going for about the same. These boats were originally 3 million (+/-) dollar boats. They tend to be in great condition and are huge. Even the condo crusiers in this range are fast, longer waterline etc.

My two questions are:

1. maintenance costs vs a used or new 50 footer? They tend to have two generators, two water makers, and other redundant systems.

2. Can a couple handle one of these monsters? All electric winches and etc. Frankly I am a bit terrified by how huge these boats are. Those gigantic sails etc seem daunting.

My sons will be 13 and 15 by then, so they will help. I am thinking of taking on a crew member? Another cruising couple that might want to share a portion of expenses and labor in return for a dream/nightmare (lol) cruise?

Someone with big Catamaran experience - what say you??[/QUOTE]

[sailingchiro]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Everything on a boat is broken - you just don't know it yet.



Try using a snubber and paying attention to weather.






Your wife might
Probably because your boats too small. (-;

Thanks but no thank you.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

@Palarran,

What, she didn't want to learn to handle the dinghy? Or someone never explained why she should learn?

Tsk. Tsk.

Ann

Ann, you are too right!! She didn't want to learn. Trust me, I've tried and tried (x100) as it would have made my life so much easier. And check it out, it's not a difficult one. Electric start, steering wheel, tilt, seat, whatever.

[dc9loser]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Dc9 have you discussed with the wife that once she is onboard the cat any time she needs to go ashore it's going to be a dinghy ride. That's no big deal, but can be a bit of a culture shock if you are avoiding marina's all the time. The same with shore excursions. Do you just abandon the cat in an anchorage while you go visit the sites or do you stay onboard while the family tours the country?
I love all these heroes that avoid marina's but sometimes tying up and being able to just walk ashore is nice.
Personally if you have a fat enough wallet you can pay to fix any problems your likely to encounter. You could even have one professional crew onboard to assist with running the cat.
Cheers

We have sailed our houseboat for 16 years. We use a dingy on longer trips. I tow a 16 foot RIB with a 60 horsepower Suzuki.

The longest trip was Atlantic City to our backyard Northwest of Tampa, 1700 miles.

We are not boat newbies, just gigantic cat newbies, or wannabes.

[dc9loser]

Originally Posted by sailingchiro

Things break!!! And it is typically the windlass in a 40 knot blow with a lee shore and 4' breaking waves on your front quarter.

Our option is to have a smaller boat but use the rest of the money for VRBO's in places we want to spend time or marina dockage.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Get a mid 40' boat that will take you and your stuff around your ideal cruising area and then give your wife some time off the boat at some pretty cool longer term rentals.

YOUR WIFE WILL WANT TO GET OFF THE BOAT for extended time. Think of 2-3 weeks on and 2-3 weeks off. You can rent more space on land than purchase boat to satisfy everyone.

The mid 40s cats are not that much less. That is the point. What can you buy in the high 40s for a million? Newer is all.

[JPA Cate]

We've a friend with a Mumby 44, built in aluminum. He likes it a lot. It doesn't bend when it is lifted on the cat-lifting fork lift, like the plastic ones do, which droop.

Ann