60 foot Catamaran for Couple?

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Joli

Running a 60' boat is no different then running a 45' boat.

In fact (as you know) sometimes it's easier. The bigger boat is normally more stable, more comfortable, with more crew protection, and with more room on deck, etc.

And in general bigger boats are often just setup better in terms of their equipment too, eg: powered winches instead of manual, bow thrusters on monos, more serious anchor and windlass, etc, etc.

But they do of course still require the proper knowledge and skill to operate.

[dc9loser]

Look I appreciate the responses. However the vast majority are conjecture.

I have one delivery Captain that I responded to. His comment seemed to indicate a competent single hander could sail a 60 footer.

One guy claims that a 60 footer will run through a 4 million dollar nest egg in two years? Math please?

Another guy claims a 40ish foot boat will perform as well as a 60 foot boat? Please show me your math? I have an article listing all the Atlantic crossing times for Catamarans and longer in actual crossings length trumps faster near 100% of the time. 62 foot Lagoons crush 40ish foot performance Cats without breaking a sweat.

There are lots of jabs at my purported abilities. Folks sailing a boat is simple. Yeah sailing a boat perfectly is near impossible, but sailing good enough is generally good enough. I readily admit I need some "learning" but I have the ability to do that quickly.

My plans are for the South Seas, maybe New Zealand?

60 foot is for sure more seaworthy than 40.

BTW I have watched many YouTube sailors. The Wynns boat is 43 not 46. And the Ocean passage to New Zealand tore parts of the little boat off. The hugely higher freeboard of a 60 would shake off a wave that crushed their boat.

The O'Kelly's claim $3k/mo is all they need, the Wynns less than that. I have several times that amount on tap monthly above the 4 million.

I have two teen aged boys in addition to me and wife. So, no a 40ish footer is a no. A 50 footer would do OK.

I will not even consider cramping aboard a 45 foot boat. 50 foot is fine, but they cost pretty much the same as a 60 footer.

Please respond with actual experience or math or logic.

I am open to suggestions, my mind is not made up. But real info that makes sense please.

[dc9loser]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Electric winches are very reliable. But things can always break down, so have at least 2 - on a 60ft cruising cat probably most or all of the winches will be electric.

As I mentioned above, manual or powered winches can also be used to assist with docking, with moving loads, with a kedge or stern anchor, etc, etc, too.

Bigger boats certainly require more thought and more planning, rather than just 'winging it' as many do on smaller boats, but if you are a Major Airline Pilot then you already understand this principle and just need to learn and apply it to the boat too.

As I also mentioned above, if you get to the point where you are trying to pull the boat 2 metres to the dock, by hand, in a strong current, well from my point of view that means you did not plan and execute the docking correctly, and you did not put all of the boat's equipment to it's best use.

On a larger boat you should really never get yourself in that type of situation, but things still go wrong sometimes so it's good to have a back up plan, eg: for docking you may plan to come straight to the dock by motors and just tie up but in a windy or strong current situation it may be prudent to have a longer extra line ready to send ashore and to take to a winch.

And just like with flying there is nothing wrong with a 'go around' if things aren't lining up right.

I agree.

The guy who is trying to muscle a boat to the dock needs judgement training. I found that post hilarious. I have a 40 foot houseboat and even that I would never try to muscle against the wind.

[dc9loser]

Going to the South Seas. So no to a power boat.

[jmh2002]

It seems to me that your thought process is reasonable.

Yes you do need to learn to handle a big boat like this, but then again you need almost all of those same skills to handle a 45ft too.

I suggest the Sailing Zatara channel. They did almost exactly what you are suggesting and bought an older but larger Privilege 585 which has HUGE volume compared to the average 40 something foot cat.

The lazerettes in the stern where the gensets, watermaker, etc are have full standing headroom!

Search through their videos and you will get a feel for the cost of running a boat like that, and that's for them, with 5-6 onboard and they don't seem to want for much.

As you mention the bigger, longer boat will in general be faster. Some of that is then traded off for more comfort and more payload. Where those types of boats suffer is in light air. Then you need to motor, or motorsail.

Top end speed is less of an issue unless you are a real enthusiast. Most cruisers are not sailing around very often at speeds in the mid to high teens on ocean passages, for multiple different reasons. Low teens yes, in the right conditions, on a performance cat.

Payload carrying ability is definitely a factor to consider if cruising with multiple people onboard.

Again, Zatara discusses this a lot. Here a couple of videos on that subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxycjVm814U

And this one comparing to another sailing channel, the Sailing Family, who have a fast Outremer 51, on passage together from Fiji to Australia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z76kBBwHci8

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

I agree.

The guy who is trying to muscle a boat to the dock needs judgement training. I found that post hilarious. I have a 40 foot houseboat and even that I would never try to muscle against the wind.

Nice atmosphere here! </sarcasm>

[dc9loser]

Thanks. I actually looked at a 615 Privilege on Saturday. $799k. 2006. They are gorgeous boats. The interior was in MUCH better shape than the Lagoon 62 and 56 and the Sunreef 62 I also viewed, althought they were 6 to 10 years newer.

The woodwork on the Privilege was first rate. The 5th cabin on the brigdedeck was cool.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by fxykty

With accommodation-oriented catamarans********** Read the original*******

As usual, fxykty has posted a very well thought out response.

My only comment, coming from someone who has sailed a 56' cat for nearly 11 years now, is those who say they can single hand a 60'er or that one is just as easy to dock as a 40'er, haven't done it enough. Yes, you can. But sometimes you can't and it's a big boat to have everything go sideways on you. When people ask me about this, I usually say I sail the boat singlehanded all the time when there are 8 people aboard. I usually dock it with two. Sometimes three are needed, especially with Med mooring and crosswinds. But there can be a time that 4 is not enough - period. You don't know when it will happen, or even if it will. But that big of a boat with that big or a rig will require some serious assistance at some point.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

I am a Major Airline Captain. I currently run a 40 foot single screw houseboat just fine. My last sailboat was a McGregor 26X. That is the biggest sailboat I have ever run.

I can figure out how to dock a 60 foot Cat, it has two motors and bow thrusters.

My concern is those huge sails. Muscle power is inert against those forces. How reliable are those electric wenches?

And back to the maintenance costs?

I am not a Major Airline Captain but I have a few decades of experience flying high performance aircraft and some granular knowledge about how things work as well. I went from a 44 to a 50 after a year and a half with no sailing experience prior to the 44. Trust me, close quarters in any marina and, of course, every French anchorage is a real nut buster for a solid year. Sailing is easy when everything is like on TV but just because you're only going 10kts doesn't mean things can't start happening like at 250kts, seriously. You already know how to focus on what needs to happen which is a huge advantage. That said, everyone you meet will know you're a newbie. As long as you take their advice and keep your sails short you'll be fine. But with just the two of us there is no way I would go as big as a 60'. One of the biggest reasons is that you may need to haul out for hurricane season or just for something. 44's are easy. 50's less so. 60's, well you get the idea. As far as maintenance costs go, don't worry. If you can afford a 60' Catamaran you don't care.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Yes, you can... But sometimes you can't and it's a big boat to have everything go sideways on you...

That's a very fair comment

On the other hand, even on large superyachts with a full crew, depending on the boat and it's capabilities combined with the port and the weather conditions sometimes it can also be difficult or risky to med moor, so it may be necessary to stay at anchor until the next morning, or make a different plan, or arrange in advance not to be in that situation in the first place, etc. That logic can and should be applied to smaller boats too.

But as an example, for two years I also used to med moor a 63ft with only 2 on a regular basis, often every day during the summer, and sometimes even without anyone on the dock to take the stern lines. I will admit that was with a bow thruster as well, though it wasn't always needed. However it was much easier docking or med mooring the 63 with twin engines and bow thruster than for example a 50 mono with a single engine alone.

So my point is that there will always be limits to what the boat and the crew can do regardless of size. It's often more about how the boat is setup and what techniques are used by the crew.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Nice atmosphere here! </sarcasm>

Yeah but DC9LOSER is after all an airline captain so he is probably used to bieng correct all of the time.

[JPA Cate]

Not knowing you personally, it's really difficult to give reasonable advice. I feel concerned that your mental image of what you would do with the catamaran you propose is not guided by spending time at sea. When you're flying in bad weather, you are insulated from what's happening on the ocean below, unless you've made one of those infamous "water landings." [Hats off to Sullenberger.]

We had a post about a pilot on here about 4 yrs. back now, put his catamaran and family on a reef at Huahine in French Polynesia, basically because he didn't understand about on-shore sets driven by tradewinds, and was not using reliable navigation tools, but he trusted what he had. Also, there was a possibility he put his cpa too close to the reef. They ran on at supper time. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-188429.html

Chrisr gave you a bunch of caveats, which I second, especially as to finding places that can haul out a 60 ft. cat, and mast height clearances. I'll limit myself to your wife's involvement, because a 60 ft. cat is a huge boat for her to learn to handle, if she has no experience.

When you're cruising, on passages, you go watch on watch. And you need to get your sleep so that you can carry on. Until you can sleep well when she's alone on watch, you'll be sleep starved, and your decisions will show it. My personal opinion is that she should be able to do everything on the boat, safely. It may mean sizing winches for her strength. She may need a lot of helm and trimming time, till she feels confident.

It is hard for me to imagine that anyone needs more than about a 38 foot cat, I'm one of the people thinks you should choose as small a boat as will make you feel content. Our boat is bigger than we need, but we love her. However, I've been aboard a 55 ft. Outremer, and it was a well set up catamaran for ocean sailing. Many others are not, imo, throughout the size range. We learned our seamanship, such as it is (there are better folks than we out there), in relative youth, and it is a huge advantage to know all one's routines for years. If I were going to recommend school training, I'd say go for the RYA training out of Great Britain. Tough enough conditions and standards for you both to learn a lot.

Being at sea for days is not for everyone. It is a different world from what you're used to. You're planning a very large investment in a depreciating non-asset, when the whole job can be done far more efficiently and pleasantly in a 38-44 ft. cat. I hope you listen to the folks here about that.


Ann

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

I am a Major Airline Captain. I currently run a 40 foot single screw houseboat just fine. My last sailboat was a McGregor 26X. That is the biggest sailboat I have ever run.

I can figure out how to dock a 60 foot Cat, it has two motors and bow thrusters.

My concern is those huge sails. Muscle power is inert against those forces. How reliable are those electric wenches?

And back to the maintenance costs?

You’re good.

Just make sure it’s set up for single handing and that the sail controls work as planned. You’ll have to do things to optimize sail control (like one should do on every boat) such as taking the load off the sail BEFORE trying to roll it up or change settings.

You’ll definitely want electric controls. Moving the sails around off the rig will definitely be a nightmare. Might need some help with that.

It’s really just a matter of how the sail controls are set up. Make sure it’s easily enough a child or less strong wife could do it no problem. Then you are good to go.

A boat this size should already be set up this way, but make sure of it.

I have to say on the negative side, the logistics get a little difficult. I’m on the edge of that with my boat. It’s extremely difficult finding marinas. I get told no 80% of the time. 10% of the time they want me to buy 2 slips for her or put me on the 75ft minimum charge dock at the end . Many people won’t even put it on most of their moorings. Be ready for a lot of anchoring and few travelifts that can haul you, even in the developed world.

My workaround was creating a boat that doesn’t need hauling except for bottom paint and that can be cleaned off by a diver occasionally. A production boat won’t have these advantages.

[dc9loser]

Originally Posted by Palarran

As usual, fxykty has posted a very well thought out response.

My only comment, coming from someone who has sailed a 56' cat for nearly 11 years now, is those who say they can single hand a 60'er or that one is just as easy to dock as a 40'er, haven't done it enough. Yes, you can. But sometimes you can't and it's a big boat to have everything go sideways on you. When people ask me about this, I usually say I sail the boat singlehanded all the time when there are 8 people aboard. I usually dock it with two. Sometimes three are needed, especially with Med mooring and crosswinds. But there can be a time that 4 is not enough - period. You don't know when it will happen, or even if it will. But that big of a boat with that big or a rig will require some serious assistance at some point.

Thanks,

Valid points. Haul outs are going to be problematic for sure. Limited facilities available.

I don't see using a Marina but rarely or going to the Med ever. Some Youtubers go years on the hook. Bottom jobs can be planned out. Its the unplanned issues that make size a very real issue.

I think that Marinas are why these boats sre cheap.

Few people want to deal with a beast of a boat in tight quarters and costs soar at this size for Marina space.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

Thanks,

Valid points. Haul outs are going to be problematic for sure. Limited facilities available.

I don't see using a Marina but rarely or going to the Med ever. Some Youtubers go years on the hook. Bottom jobs can be planned out. Its the unplanned issues that make size a very real issue.

I think that Marinas are why these boats sre cheap.

Few people want to deal with a beast of a boat in tight quarters and costs soar at this size for Marina space.

Hey, on the bright side, you can at least dry the boat out using tidal areas if you have something pressing to take care of and can’t find a marina or diver.

It’s a concern, but not an impossibility