60 foot Catamaran for Couple?

[dc9loser]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

The inital purchase price is only part of the equation. No way a 60 foot boat costs the same or less over longterm compared to a 50 footer.

True.

The question is how much more?

I asked the guy with a 60 and he talked about a $600 oven replacement.

Got to tell ya that last year I went through $5000 for a new generator, $18,000 for a new engine, and about $4000 in other stuff on a 40 foot floating trailer. It was a bad year but I am well aware that boats are money pits. I have three, well four if ya count my broken seacycle, lol

The question is how much more? Zatara is running really cheap with their Privilege 585.

Anyone else with more real data? And less you are going to fall off the end of the Earth nonsense? Thar be monsters and all that.

[C420sailor]

The data you seek is likely to be few and far between.

A 60’ cat is absolutely monstrous, and very few own relatively new 60’ cats.

That is why you aren’t seeing too much data. It’s much like going into a GA forum and asking for ownership expense data on a new TBM. They’re out there, but most of us are flying old light twins, tops.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

...
The question is how much more?
...

Asking how much it costs to maintain a boat is hard to answer. There will be the usual 10% answer, which I do not believe.

The best answer I have found to the question is on the Morgan's Cloud website. They have a spreadsheet that one can download, change the variables to meet one's situation, and out pops a number that seems accurate best I can tell.

The website is behind a paywall but it is worth the money.

The link to the discussions and spreadsheet is here, https://www.morganscloud.com/2014/07...ging-sailboat/

Later,
Dan

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

True.



I asked the guy with a 60 and he talked about a $600 oven replacement.

.

That was a 42 ft powered vessel owner who responded

I would suggest that antifoul etc won't be a large additional expense, sure, a few grand more but over two years that's neither here nor there.

A 60ft boat uses the same pumps, toilets, hose, electricals etc etc as a smaller boat but with easier access

Sails , winches, ropes and rigging on the other hand will go up in price considerably.
Rig and sails on boats that size could very easily exceed $100k

That buys a hell of a lot of diesel and miles under power.
A big part of the reason we gave up on cats and went the way we did was that
: large powered vessels are often far cheaper to purchase than a large cat
: That difference in price can buy a lifetime of maintenance and fuel - you need to find that money again on the cat.
: Large powered vessels are generally not affected by weight, carry all the toys and stores you want.

[Joli]

I would love an 80'er but the misses is happy with our 60'er. Plus once you get over about 70' insurance becomes a real issue for an owner operator.

[mcarthur]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

The Dashews are 1% of 1%. So I disagree that powerboats of comparable size can be operated anywhere near as inexpensively as a sailboat.

And a decent sailor knows how to stop their boat nearly as quickly as a powerboat. What about the scenario where. A boater falls off a boat under power without a kill switch. Good luck with that too.

Oh, totally agree with you and others about the cost of the FPBs! But that's just an example, and while it's out of your reach perhaps, it may well be well within the reach and interest of the OP - hence the mention.

While you obviously disagree with the expense of sail = expense of power, for those who have extensive experience with both AND have written about it, the answer is abundantly clear - they're on par with each other. I'd suggest the OP listen to that experience.

As regards the MOB on the powerboat, the big difference is that the engines are (presumably) already running on the powerboat. Remember, the OP is talking about "singlehanding" because his family won't be as extensively trained AND AS ABLE as he makes out he is. I would back the ability of someone with little training and strength (OP's "monster" comment about winches) to get back to a MOB quicker than someone on a 60+ ft sailing boat, at least one sail up, no motor on.

The MOB question though is at the far end of the spectrum of likely problems for this OP, but it should be part of their thinking and planning. It is merely one reason why considering - not immediately rejecting - a power vessel is a good move.
After all, the OP is so confused they are complaining that they want extreme shoal draft, huge carrying capacity for toys, go fast, and be remote with rare haulouts and marina life . It's the usual three functions (e.g. cost/time/scope, or speed/cost/functionality) - you can have either:

• 1 out of the 3 really good, 1 avg, 1 terrible - really fast, ok load carrying and space, extremely high cost
• 2 out of the 3 avg or slightly above avg, 1 poor - ok speed, ok cost, minimal load carrying and space

To the OP: maybe look at an older 60+ft trimaran.

On the other hand, if you like the expensive quiet life, look at a Silent Yacht

[Moontide]

[QUOTE=Captain Bill;3478888]The 1500 hour number I quoted comes directly from the service manuals of Yanmar and ZF saildrives as well as several shaft transmissions I have read. In plain English they list the service life on many major components and they list them as 1500 hours..


I misread your post I guess. Not sure what you consider major components. I thought you meant the drive was done at 1500 hours although I don't remember seeing live expectancies for various componentes in my service manuals but am going to check when I get back to the boat. There are parts that Yanmar considers maintenance (like cone clutches) which I think is BS. But even cone clutches are not that bad to replace/repair. I have one saildrive 31 which is now over 20 years old. Only issues I have had is worn spot on output shaft where the seals wore into the (too soft) shaft. That was less than $200 to have a sleeve put on it when I already had the boat on the hard. Actually am amazed that the cone clutch is still fine after some 6,000 hours since I don't think saildrives are very good products from a users standpoint. That does not include legit maintenance items like the seals on the output shaft and oil changes.

[Chotu]

Input on large catamaran MOB:

Onboard rules can go a lot farther than actual MOB drills.

Rule: if boat is underway, everyone stays inside.

No MOB

[Moontide]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Input on large catamaran MOB:

Onboard rules can go a lot farther than actual MOB drills.

Rule: if boat is underway, everyone stays inside.

No MOB

Have never heard of any boat that has that rule except maybe for kids. And not very practical for a boat underway, especially on a sailboat. Part of the great part of being on the ocean is to be outside with Mother Nature. Can't imagine being out sailing and not sitting up on the trampoline.

[alansmith]

First world problem, eh? Smile.

My two cents? did you know that sailing...no matter what it is that you are sailing is just flat out hard work. There is a saying....there are no fat sailors for those who live on the hook. do you realize there are countless times that skippers will recount of terrifying situations that occur when on their boats. Even seasoned sailors will tell you how many times they have puked their guts out. I am no exception.

Sometimes people watch too much youtube and think it is just visiting some blue lagoon and feeding pigs that swim out to meet you. But they don't tell you how you can have days of rolling seas and rain for a week...everything salty, sticky messes. If you get a large cat you will have many creature comforts. We have a saying in the boating world..."fixing boats in exotic places."

Are you good with mechanical and electrical systems. Many things can be learned as you gain experience. But my number one question for you is this....Have you chartered boats with your sweetheart? Have you taken courses together? Because if she ain't on board with this...holy molley....She needs to know what the real life aboard is about...not some youtube finely edited BS. There are countless men on this forum....alone....who have lost their companion's interest in sailing after some terrifying situations...or disillusionment with life aboard a boat.

Do you really feel that there is some intelligence in buying a boat that is millions of dollars and you know next to nothing about sailing, navagation, seamanship, marlinspike manship, mechanical and electrical systems that hybrid 12volt DC and 120 volt AC, and weather reading? It takes years to build experience. Do you really like to roll the dice and put your family at risk with literally zero experience? Once you hundreds of miles off shore....whew....Even large ships can be destroyed by storms....I remember the cyclone that hit Guam when i lived there in 1970. Sank naval ships in the harbor that was protected by a large sea wall. Typhoon Cobra in 1944 (sometimes called Halsey's Typhoon) caught the Navy fleet and sank three destroyers and killed over 700 naval personal.

I was vacationing on a 55 foot Sunsail in Skopelos. There were 8 of us on board. All of us experienced boatmen and women. A meltemi hit us somewhere around 1 am. We were stern tied to the quay and our anchor out in the channel. There were many boats tied to the quay in the same fashion. The late comers were anchored in the channel with single hooks. Within less than a minute after the winds hit there was a horrific scene of boats dragging across other anchors. Boats slamming into other boats tied alongside of them. Naked men and women who didn't have a second to cover their privates. Screaming and cursing and near fist fights. Fifteen minutes later it was all over. It was deeply unsettling. There were a lot of boats that had thousands of dollars worth of damage to bow pulpits, Toys that went flying and never to be seen again. Rub rails snapped off as boats heaved up into their neighbors. Roller furling sails ripped to shreds when they unfurled by chance. This, Sir, is only one small story...and it occured while quay tied and fore anchored. Many sailors can attest how freaking scary it can get out there....Before you buy anything....and i am happy your finances are better than most peoples....get a bunch of charters under your belt with your sweetheart....see if it is what you really like to do....i wish you fair winds and wonderful memories.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by alansmith

First world problem, eh? Smile.

My two cents? did you know that sailing...no matter what it is that you are sailing is just flat out hard work. There is a saying....there are no fat sailors for those who live on the hook. do you realize there are countless times that skippers will recount of terrifying situations that occur when on their boats. Even seasoned sailors will tell you how many times they have puked their guts out. I am no exception.

Sometimes people watch too much youtube and think it is just visiting some blue lagoon and feeding pigs that swim out to meet you. But they don't tell you how you can have days of rolling seas and rain for a week...everything salty, sticky messes. If you get a large cat you will have many creature comforts. We have a saying in the boating world..."fixing boats in exotic places."

Are you good with mechanical and electrical systems. Many things can be learned as you gain experience. But my number one question for you is this....Have you chartered boats with your sweetheart? Have you taken courses together? Because if she ain't on board with this...holy molley....She needs to know what the real life aboard is about...not some youtube finely edited BS. There are countless men on this forum....alone....who have lost their companion's interest in sailing after some terrifying situations...or disillusionment with life aboard a boat.

Do you really feel that there is some intelligence in buying a boat that is millions of dollars and you know next to nothing about sailing, navagation, seamanship, marlinspike manship, mechanical and electrical systems that hybrid 12volt DC and 120 volt AC, and weather reading? It takes years to build experience. Do you really like to roll the dice and put your family at risk with literally zero experience? Once you hundreds of miles off shore....whew....Even large ships can be destroyed by storms....I remember the cyclone that hit Guam when i lived there in 1970. Sank naval ships in the harbor that was protected by a large sea wall. Typhoon Cobra in 1944 (sometimes called Halsey's Typhoon) caught the Navy fleet and sank three destroyers and killed over 700 naval personal.

I was vacationing on a 55 foot Sunsail in Skopelos. There were 8 of us on board. All of us experienced boatmen and women. A meltemi hit us somewhere around 1 am. We were stern tied to the quay and our anchor out in the channel. There were many boats tied to the quay in the same fashion. The late comers were anchored in the channel with single hooks. Within less than a minute after the winds hit there was a horrific scene of boats dragging across other anchors. Boats slamming into other boats tied alongside of them. Naked men and women who didn't have a second to cover their privates. Screaming and cursing and near fist fights. Fifteen minutes later it was all over. It was deeply unsettling. There were a lot of boats that had thousands of dollars worth of damage to bow pulpits, Toys that went flying and never to be seen again. Rub rails snapped off as boats heaved up into their neighbors. Roller furling sails ripped to shreds when they unfurled by chance. This, Sir, is only one small story...and it occured while quay tied and fore anchored. Many sailors can attest how freaking scary it can get out there....Before you buy anything....and i am happy your finances are better than most peoples....get a bunch of charters under your belt with your sweetheart....see if it is what you really like to do....i wish you fair winds and wonderful memories.

Do you realize that he has already owned a boat for 16 years?

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by alansmith

First world problem, eh? Smile.

My two cents? did you know that sailing...no matter what it is that you are sailing is just flat out hard work. There is a saying....there are no fat sailors for those who live on the hook. do you realize there are countless times that skippers will recount of terrifying situations that occur when on their boats. Even seasoned sailors will tell you how many times they have puked their guts out. I am no exception.

Sometimes people watch too much youtube and think it is just visiting some blue lagoon and feeding pigs that swim out to meet you. But they don't tell you how you can have days of rolling seas and rain for a week...everything salty, sticky messes. If you get a large cat you will have many creature comforts. We have a saying in the boating world..."fixing boats in exotic places."

Are you good with mechanical and electrical systems. Many things can be learned as you gain experience. But my number one question for you is this....Have you chartered boats with your sweetheart? Have you taken courses together? Because if she ain't on board with this...holy molley....She needs to know what the real life aboard is about...not some youtube finely edited BS. There are countless men on this forum....alone....who have lost their companion's interest in sailing after some terrifying situations...or disillusionment with life aboard a boat.

Do you really feel that there is some intelligence in buying a boat that is millions of dollars and you know next to nothing about sailing, navagation, seamanship, marlinspike manship, mechanical and electrical systems that hybrid 12volt DC and 120 volt AC, and weather reading? It takes years to build experience. Do you really like to roll the dice and put your family at risk with literally zero experience? Once you hundreds of miles off shore....whew....Even large ships can be destroyed by storms....I remember the cyclone that hit Guam when i lived there in 1970. Sank naval ships in the harbor that was protected by a large sea wall. Typhoon Cobra in 1944 (sometimes called Halsey's Typhoon) caught the Navy fleet and sank three destroyers and killed over 700 naval personal.

I was vacationing on a 55 foot Sunsail in Skopelos. There were 8 of us on board. All of us experienced boatmen and women. A meltemi hit us somewhere around 1 am. We were stern tied to the quay and our anchor out in the channel. There were many boats tied to the quay in the same fashion. The late comers were anchored in the channel with single hooks. Within less than a minute after the winds hit there was a horrific scene of boats dragging across other anchors. Boats slamming into other boats tied alongside of them. Naked men and women who didn't have a second to cover their privates. Screaming and cursing and near fist fights. Fifteen minutes later it was all over. It was deeply unsettling. There were a lot of boats that had thousands of dollars worth of damage to bow pulpits, Toys that went flying and never to be seen again. Rub rails snapped off as boats heaved up into their neighbors. Roller furling sails ripped to shreds when they unfurled by chance. This, Sir, is only one small story...and it occured while quay tied and fore anchored. Many sailors can attest how freaking scary it can get out there....Before you buy anything....and i am happy your finances are better than most peoples....get a bunch of charters under your belt with your sweetheart....see if it is what you really like to do....i wish you fair winds and wonderful memories.

Literacy skills not quite up to the task????

[rabbi]

I understand the OP has boating experience, more than enough money, and seems to be able to figure things out so should be able to cruise on his own.

What I don't get is how these two fit together :

Originally Posted by dc9loser

I want to go off the beaten track. Small Islands in the South Pacific.

Originally Posted by dc9loser

My houseboat has a full sized household refrigerator and a king sized bed. It has an upper deck 35x12, a front deck 10x12, lots of room. That is the sailing my wife is accustomed to. The thought of shoving her into a barely double berth in the dark hold of a 40 foot Cat is unthinkable.

If a cat in the mid 40s is not enough to keep your wife / family happy I bet your wife will not enjoy remote isolated islands off the beaten track - no matter what size the boat is.
Once the icemaker or the A/C breaks she calls a SAR helicopter to get a lift to the next posh hotel.


Regarding maintenance costs: I would not bother at all. At least not if you don't plan to keep the boat for longer periods than this 2 year trip.
The cost of standard maintenance like antifoul or haulout over a two year period is minimal compared to the overall cost associated with buy + prepare +sell. The condition of the boat you buy is way more important than that.

A 60ft in perfect condition will cost less to maintain for those 2 years than a 45ft in need of a refit. A 60ft in need of a refit is a financial nightmare.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

That was a 42 ft powered vessel owner who responded

I think he meant he really did speak with a 60' cat owner about that.

I assume you meant my online "oven" response. We're still a powerboat, but 58' now.

-Chris

[dannc]

Originally Posted by mcarthur

Oh, totally agree with you and others about the cost of the FPBs! But that's just an example, and while it's out of your reach perhaps, it may well be well within the reach and interest of the OP - hence the mention.
...
The MOB question though is at the far end of the spectrum of likely problems for this OP, but it should be part of their thinking and planning....

There are FPB like boats without the FPB prices. Artnuatica is one, https://artnautica.eu/,though I suspect the OP would want a LRC 78. A couple are designing their own FPB like boat and the discussion is on TF, https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...ead-58500.html. There are other designs out there besides the Dashews. They started the design idea and others are carrying it forward.

Having said that, the OP seems to have found large cats for a price point which seem to be less than what one of the above boats would cost to build.

Everyone should be concerned about MOB. This week a woman in NL went for a swim off a beach. She was found 11 KM offshore. She got lucky in that a couple in sailboat managed to see her. The problem was the couple could NOT get the woman into their boat and they had to call the coast guard which sent out a copter to pull the lady out of the water.

I hope the sailing couple is thinking about their experience.

I have not read of people swimming off beaches and getting far out to sea before, but the week prior, a guy in Ireland did the same thing. He was in the water for 12 hours and was 2 miles offshore when he was found by the RNLI. The RNLI crew noticed him when a pod of dolphins caught their eye. The dolphins were around the swimmer.

Later,
Dan