500K. Cat or monohull ? Ocean crossings. Med + Bahamas. Beneteau 51.1 ?

[Joli]

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

With multiple ocean crossings on both mono's and cat's I agree with the general idea that the motion is different as you describe, but I personally would much rather the motion on a Cat than that on a Mono. But it all depends on the boat, person and time. We had a very experienced mono-hull sailing friend of ours join us for an ocean passage on our cat and he found the different motion really challenging for the first week.

This motion is separate from the issue of slamming which is also a difference/concern lots of people worry about. On many cats slamming, if it occurs at all, can be mitigated by adjusting course a little. The "jerky" motion is not as adjustable as it is caused by the windward hull/bow rising to oncoming swells/waves before the leeward hull/bow, so the boat has somewhat of a corkscrewing motion. Slamming is usually caused by the wave striking the leeward underside of the bridge deck.

My wife would never agree to cruising a multi because of the cork screw motion. She gets very sick very quickly on a cat when the breeze and waves are forward. The slower softer motion of our mono usually doesn't bother her but she can get sick on it too, just not as fast or as violently.

You have to sail different boats and decide what is most comfortable for you.

[ChrisJHC]

Let’s approach this another way:

If you want to spend $500K then you’re looking at paying around $300 - $400K for the boat and the rest on upgrading it to what you want.

Have a look at what you can realistically buy for $300 - $400K.
I think you’ll find you can get a lot more bang for your buck for a mono in that range than for a multi.

I do note that a lot of the multis being proposed are significantly outside your price range.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Joli

My wife would never agree to cruising a multi because of the cork screw motion. She gets very sick very quickly on a cat when the breeze and waves are forward. The slower softer motion of our mono usually doesn't bother her but she can get sick on it too, just not as fast or as violently.



You have to sail different boats and decide what is most comfortable for you.

Absolutely agree, sail different boats.
Neither my wife or I would have lasted a couple of years on the roll, wallow and broach motion of the monohull, let alone the dismal rolling in an anchorage, yet some are stronger than us!
Its all a matter of perspective and realizing that all boats, mono or multi have different motions.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Monohulls are sailing boats cats are mobos with a stick

ROTFLMAO. I just spent a few weeks on a Outremer 55 in the Med, flat water light winds and there wasn't a day we weren't doing 85% or better of windspeed. Seriously when are people going to stop this dribble. There was no - I say again NO, mono that was doing passages anywhere near as quick as we were.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Stewie12

. As a sailboat I would go for a monohull for windward performance.

Again what is with this rubbish, yes some cats, mainly the so called big three sail like crap, here is a news flash - so do some monos, I have owned a few crap sailing monos. 4 knot sh** boxes they are called, didn't know any better when I bought them. Believed the monos go to windward as a truism applying to all monos. I was wrong of course, and so are you.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by skipmac

...... I have found cats to have an odd, corkscrew motion.

Its not a CAT thing, as in it doesnt apply to all cats, it has a lot to do with hull shape, but mainly its about weight, a really well designed and built light cat won't feel like this, a heavy fat slug will.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Factor

ROTFLMAO. I just spent a few weeks on a Outremer 55 in the Med, flat water light winds and there wasn't a day we weren't doing 85% or better of windspeed. Seriously when are people going to stop this dribble. There was no - I say again NO, mono that was doing passages anywhere near as quick as we were.

Also I should say that one passage was 10 knots maximum breeze and we were sailing at 8s and 9s, I did not see a mono sailing at all, all were motoring

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Factor

Again what is with this rubbish, yes some cats, mainly the so called big three sail like crap, here is a news flash - so do some monos, I have owned a few crap sailing monos. 4 knot sh** boxes they are called, didn't know any better when I bought them. Believed the monos go to windward as a truism applying to all monos. I was wrong of course, and so are you.

So right, I was recently very surprised by how poor the sailing performance of an Amel yacht was. Less than 50% wind speed and very poor to windward. This is a well respected ocean going mono. The premiss that monos capable of crossing oceans sail well to windward is a myth.

[Joli]

You of have to compare apples to apples. So maybe compare the Outremere to a Shipman 63. The Shipman will sail from St Martin to the Chesapeake in 5 days. We don't sail a traditional cruising boat. Our long term average for passaging is about 180 miles a day. We'll easily sail with an assy in light wind (8 apparent) at 9 or 10 knots.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Joli

You of have to compare apples to apples. .

I will if they will, the statements made were that Monos sail to windward and cats don't, that monos have a nicer motion than cats, that monos blah cats blah. the posters pushing the mono barrel here are saying all cats are the same - they are not, any more than all monos are the same.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

So right, I was recently very surprised by how poor the sailing performance of an Amel yacht was. Less than 50% wind speed and very poor to windward. This is a well respected ocean going mono. The premiss that monos capable of crossing oceans sail well to windward is a myth.

Big slow boat. Needs lots of sail area or big wind

[smj]

Originally Posted by Joli

You of have to compare apples to apples. So maybe compare the Outremere to a Shipman 63. The Shipman will sail from St Martin to the Chesapeake in 5 days. We don't sail a traditional cruising boat. Our long term average for passaging is about 180 miles a day. We'll easily sail with an assy in light wind (8 apparent) at 9 or 10 knots.

What’s the true wind speed and direction to make those speeds?

[Joli]

Originally Posted by smj

What’s the true wind speed and direction to make those speeds?

Us? That's our average for they past 3 years and 20,000 miles. Winds we're light and variable to 55 knots, upwind, downwind and reaching.
The Shipman, it sailed from the Chesapeake to Antigua in seven days, upwind, in a big breeze by a solo sailor. Downwind back to the Chesapeake that boat will make some very high averages. I have no doubt it'll average 12~13 knots.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Big slow boat. Needs lots of sail area or big wind

The Amel is actually a pretty good passage boat. Not a great upwind boat but they make good daily runs and are easy to sail for a couple.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Factor

I will if they will, the statements made were that Monos sail to windward and cats don't, that monos have a nicer motion than cats, that monos blah cats blah. the posters pushing the mono barrel here are saying all cats are the same - they are not, any more than all monos are the same.

Of course. There's a wide range of performance, comfort, style for both monos and multis. That's why people should sail a variety of boats in a variety of conditions before buying. They're different.