500K. Cat or monohull ? Ocean crossings. Med + Bahamas. Beneteau 51.1 ?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by smj

Maybe the solution would be to take a catamaran and stick a hull in the center……..[emoji16]

Yea, that's the ticket. You could call it a threemaran. Would give you the best of both worlds. Or would it give you the worst of both?

[Stewie12]

I would suggest that you charter both and see which you prefer. As a live aboard a cat is like having a condo, which is why women prefer them. As a sailboat I would go for a monohull for windward performance.

[davecalvert]

Seems like the never ending argument, catamaran vs monohull!
I have cruised and raced sailboats for 50 years. At first a real traditionalist and was against multihulls. But, I was young than. After 30 years of mono hulls of many sizes and, 20 years of catamarans, I will never go back to a monohull!
I expect to see monohull cruising boats become less and less on the water, in proportion to multihulls, as time goes on. Good catamarans just offer so many improvements over monohulls these days and will continue to evolve. Of course for serious parts of the oceans, a good monohull with ultimate stability is safer than a boat that can capsize. But, for all else, and what most of do, cats are best!

[Pitchondesign]

Cats are in high demand at the moment. So, in the used market, a good cat costs much more than a good monohull, given the approximately same interior space. So, a good 50' mono will cost less than a good mid 40' cat. In the new boat market, a cat will have near zero depreciation for several years. A new mono will depreciate immediately.

$500k buys a very nice well equiped used mono, but only an average cat. Its near impossible to find a "deal" on a cat. The mono market is much broader.

[smj]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Yea, that's the ticket. You could call it a threemaran. Would give you the best of both worlds. Or would it give you the worst of both?

Yes, like a monohull with training wheels? [emoji16]

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by davecalvert

Seems like the never ending argument, catamaran vs monohull!
I have cruised and raced sailboats for 50 years. At first a real traditionalist and was against multihulls. But, I was young than. After 30 years of mono hulls of many sizes and, 20 years of catamarans, I will never go back to a monohull!
I expect to see monohull cruising boats become less and less on the water, in proportion to multihulls, as time goes on. Good catamarans just offer so many improvements over monohulls these days and will continue to evolve. Of course for serious parts of the oceans, a good monohull with ultimate stability is safer than a boat that can capsize. But, for all else, and what most of do, cats are best!

Since you clearly have a lot of experience on both, what's your take on my observation that the motion on a cat is quicker and jerky compared to the motion on a monohull, especially beating in to the wind? Also with seas at the right (or wrong?) angle on the beam I have found cats to have an odd, corkscrew motion.

Have you seen this? Agree or not? Does it happen but it's rare or can easily be mitigated by a slight change in course?

[eddy52257]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Monohulls are sailing boats cats are mobos with a stick

Cats are being charged 1.5 x berthing in the med at present ( or more )

Not sure where you get this information. I sail a Catana 42 and while cruising in the Bahamas this winter with a friend on a 42 Jenneau we outsailed them to weather crossing from the Abacos to Eleuthra. Cats aren't designed for short tacking up a channel, but a performance cat will win out in most crossings. Sailed from Newport to Beaufort last fall and a 55 Beneteau that started in front of us finished half a day behind us, They were exhausted from the constant rolling going downwind while we were in good shape.

[eddy52257]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Since you clearly have a lot of experience on both, what's your take on my observation that the motion on a cat is quicker and jerky compared to the motion on a monohull, especially beating in to the wind? Also with seas at the right (or wrong?) angle on the beam I have found cats to have an odd, corkscrew motion.

Have you seen this? Agree or not? Does it happen but it's rare or can easily be mitigated by a slight change in course?

I went from a mono to a cat and while the motion is different, I don't think one is worse than the other. It took me a couple of sails to get used to the motion, but now I don't really notice it.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by smj

Yes, like a monohull with training wheels? [emoji16]

Not me, I don’t do monohulls!

[AboutTime1]

Thanks for the replies.

So the cats have more room and a more stable but jerky motion.

What is faster going across the Atlantic... a "cruising cat" or a modern cruising monohull. ie Beneteau 51.1, Dufor 56, etc.

What costs more to own ?

[Dogscout]

What costs more to own? Not sure I've never owned a large cat. I'm betting the one with 2 hulls, 2 engines and more refrigerators cost more to own.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by AboutTime1

Thanks for the replies.

So the cats have more room and a more stable but jerky motion.

What is faster going across the Atlantic... a "cruising cat" or a modern cruising monohull. ie Beneteau 51.1, Dufor 56, etc.

What costs more to own ?

You need to share your experience. The questions you are asking are naive in the extreme.


Compare the polars for a Dufour 56 with say a Leopard 4600, a rather average cruising cat. The Leopard runs rings around the Dufour on all points with the exception of hard on the wind, not surprising given the style of cat. Now compare it with a Balance 526 or a TS52



Bear in mind this is on paper theory and there are many other factors to consider in real lifes.



Most ocean crossing do not usually involve sailing to windward.



An Atlantic crossing does not have a predictable result, acceptable amount of motoring, number of crew and crew experience, time of year, weather, state of the sails, sail wardrobe, breakages, etc etc.


It can be tough for an inexperienced crew to maintain 200+ NM days. We sail as a couple and tend to restrict our speed to about 10 knots. The noise of sailing faster than this day after day becomes very tiring. Compare this to a full crew with something to prove who can constantly push the boat. On an ocean passage if for example there is no wind at all we stop, motoring a sail boat on a ocean passage is futile IMO. This is not the case with passages of up to 2 or 3 days.


A sailing boat mono or multi is a wonderful way to travel but a lousy form of transport.


As far as costs go, cats are more expensive, if you can't afford it or are worried about costs buy a mono.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by AboutTime1

Thanks for the replies.

So the cats have more room and a more stable but jerky motion.

What is faster going across the Atlantic... a "cruising cat" or a modern cruising monohull. ie Beneteau 51.1, Dufor 56, etc.

What costs more to own ?

Any boat, cat or mono, has a sea state and or a wind angle that gives it a crappy motion. You just learn to work around it.
Mono can be good value for money, but the space and comfort of a cat cannot be beat! Keep you Admiral happy. There are some stunning cats in your price range. As said earlier, charter a few boats and take it from there. Cost of ownership in my opinion is pretty much the same.

[zstine]

If you don't know if you want a Cat or Mono, then DO NOT SPEND $500,000 on a boat!!!


Go charter, or buy a cheaper boat to try out then sell... or give me some of that money b/c you have too much of it if you are even considering spending half a million and don't know if you like apples or oranges!


Why not a Trimaran!

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Since you clearly have a lot of experience on both, what's your take on my observation that the motion on a cat is quicker and jerky compared to the motion on a monohull, especially beating in to the wind? Also with seas at the right (or wrong?) angle on the beam I have found cats to have an odd, corkscrew motion.



Have you seen this? Agree or not? Does it happen but it's rare or can easily be mitigated by a slight change in course?

Yes, seen it.

No, don’t agree because it is very specific to particular conditions and not usually present when going to windward or any other point of sail.

Yes, very rare and easily mitigated, primarily by slowing down.

The proof is in the pudding: watch a monohull come into port after a passage and you’ll see unwashed and tired people hanging out stuff to dry. Watch a catamaran come into port and they’re sitting on their cockpit cushions enjoying a drink.