Tallships. Which one?

[Jdeuel]

Coffee is nice because it doesn't spoil and rats don't like green beans. It is, however, susceptible to molds and it's extremely sensitive to contamination by 'smells'. I know of an entire semi-trailer that was rejected by the roaster because the truck driver stopped in Gilroy to pick up a couple cases of garlic for friends. The coffee tasted like garlic. Containers in coffee ports are inspected before loading for smells and contaminants. One of the big ones is fuel/oil soaked into the wood floors.

Being in the coffee business myself, I can tell you the margins for roasters are generally incredible. 1 green pound of Colombia Supremo at $2.25 US (from my broker) sells for $12-$18 for post-roasted 12oz. You'd probably be better buying directly from farmers or co-ops and becoming that middleman. Coffee with a 'story' can fetch a premium, so 'imported via tallship' may be a thing. Look up Civet coffee...yuck.

A solid YouTube presence would certainly help push the story.

JD

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Business model? Surely you jest...

Jim

Yep, As a business I'd think a hands on sailing charter business would be much more profitable and require a lot less capital to get going. I figure there's a reason that any tall ships left are owned by Navies as training vessels and paid for with taxpayer's money. I still can't figure what it is exactly that they're training for

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Business model? Surely you jest...

Jim

Amen!

[captlloyd]

Nice romantic dream ! But from your comments it is a dream and fantasy. A couple of commenters have touched on the boat. You have not mentioned your bankroll yet but building a ship that size is talking most likely millions. Restoring a large sailing ship is talking hundreds of thousands and don’t forget about meeting Coast Guard standards for this type ship, especially for paying passengers. What is your budget ?

[Jdeuel]

By the way, for all the folks poo-pooing the concept, I thought Twitter, Facebook, and particularly Instagram were unworkable 'business models'...

Something else to consider: Folks in the coffee industry LOVE taking 'origin trips' to see where the coffee is grown and processed. Seems like there might be a tie-in with sail training/charter for the return trip.

JD

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Jdeuel

By the way, for all the folks poo-pooing the concept, I thought Twitter, Facebook, and particularly Instagram were unworkable 'business models'...

Something else to consider: Folks in the coffee industry LOVE taking 'origin trips' to see where the coffee is grown and processed. Seems like there might be a tie-in with sail training/charter for the return trip.

JD

For every twitter, facebook and instagram, there are thousands of failed .com's that sucked bank accounts dry.

Chartering is probably more viable but probably makes a lot more sense to get a 50-60ft charter cat and run the charters where it's a modern up to date boat and a couple with moderate skills can handle the boat and you don't need a specialists from a bygone day.

[Franziska]

Here is an idea.
Few years ago there was a tallship with green sails called Alexander von Humboldt.
They played a major role in one of the beer brewers marketing.

How about you find a ship crew and investors and strike a deal with one if the big coffee companies.
Intense marketing including marketing excursions like the Camel Trophy, but afloat to the coffee plantation and back with a big load of beans.

Add a paragraph into your deal that the ship becomes your and your primary investors after x years or x voyages.

Than use the ship with its than hopefully solid reputation on a more open market rather than exclusivly for one big player.

Just a thought...

[Jackofall]

Originally Posted by TomThumb

I'll stay out of the business/ROI/profitability aspect. Risk, niche, longevity of market all spring to mind.

But as a square rig captain, I'll offer a few thoughts. This is clearly a niche sector with a limited pool of square rig endorsed masters and mates and deckhands.

Any volunteer/ amateur crew come with a liability in terms of competence and safety that will fall on the pro crew. Rather than assigning a task, you have to supervise willing novices. Doing that aloft, in oul weather when they don't want to play anymore is a truth.

Similarly, looking after this kind of ship, new or old, comes with a level of specialist knowledge and experience. Many riggers aren't gurus on square rig. Your bosun needs to direct them. Your engineer needs to love old and obscure equipment, fabricating parts rather than ordering them and also working aloft.

In terms of the rig, you will probably be dictated to by what is available but the essential factor between the number of masts and sails is an engineering one. Barquentines, (3 masts, foremast square rigged) do look better than brigantines (2 masts, fore square rigged) IMHO. Topsail schooners, (two or more masts but with a one or two squares on the foremast) are common. Staysail schooners with no squares are common and have the advantage of not needing crew to go aloft. Modern design allows some enormously tall single mast yachts. Once the mast height was determined by trees. The reason for more masts is twofold, to reduce overall masthead height (think about bridges) and the structural aspects in building and rigging them and to lower the height of the rig above the water reducing heel. The number of sails is about how manageable an individual sail is. Smaller sails are easier to furl and hoist. Many sails do not necessarily mean more crew, just working quickly from sail to sail. That is more a factor of their competence than numbers.

Thank you! Danke Schön! Merci!
This is the info I was looking for. I look forward to hearing more from your expertise if I may. More on that later. To the rest of you, thanks as well. We are in the discovery mode of planning, nothing concrete as of yet.

Flag nation will most likely be Switzerland. The Swiss flag is a huge plus........(Its a swiss joke, but its also true). Taxes, carbon credits, welcomed everywhere, etc.
I dont have all the details, thats why I started this thread and so far its been nothing but good answers, very helpful info, good encouragement, and a healthy dose of skepticism. I love it.

Coffee bean hold: I would want a sealed hold with a climate control, well, as much as possible given energy available. Even if it just a carbon filter intake fan for ventilation.
Sorry I couldn't multi quote Jdeuel. Your right. Roasters enjoy a tremendous markup. I have some roasting experience through my friend who runs a roasteri. Roaster on board, sell at ports. Why not?

[Peeew]

I crew on a 122 foot wooden gaff rigged schooner. A replica boat built 20 years ago. A private group built it and when it last changed hands it sold for about 10% of the cost to build. The annual cost to meet coast guard inspection requirements alone is astonishing.
Great fun to be out sailing it with a dinner charter etc, but make money?? I can’t imagine how.

[mako]

OP sounds like you’re starting to develop a more confident business model: coffee, go green, delivered across the ocean with renewable energy, max 6 charter guests, highly romanticism guests.

But drop the square rigger requirement at 150 feet long. Honestly I think the word “schooner” has a much better appeal. Pick up a vessel with max length between the perpendiculars of 83 ft. Has got to be tons of sailboats like that out there. Rip out the center accommodations and convert into a cargo hold.

You might actually be into something here!

[Jdeuel]

Originally Posted by Jackofall

Roaster on board, sell at ports. Why not?

You certainly *could* roast aboard. Probably want to do it at landfall, as coffee starts to go stale about a week post-roast. Gas production roasters use incredible amounts of fuel, and trying to do it with propane would require a LOT of propane. Better to look at electric fluid-bed roasters. Coffee Crafters in WA puts out a solid product, 220v, that can roast 70#/hour.

[Jackofall]

Originally Posted by Peeew

I crew on a 122 foot wooden gaff rigged schooner. A replica boat built 20 years ago. A private group built it and when it last changed hands it sold for about 10% of the cost to build. The annual cost to meet coast guard inspection requirements alone is astonishing.
Great fun to be out sailing it with a dinner charter etc, but make money?? I can’t imagine how.

This is why I am only looking at steel hulled. Wooden hulls are a bit too romantic IMO. Tres Hombres is currently ripping out rotten planks. And who said I am even going to the U.S? I mean, I would live to add the U.S as a route, but I think it would be much easier importing to the E.U market. I could see a Jamacia to U.S route for another ship. Hawaii to Seattle. Etc, etc.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

Yep, As a business I'd think a hands on sailing charter business would be much more profitable and require a lot less capital to get going. I figure there's a reason that any tall ships left are owned by Navies as training vessels and paid for with taxpayer's money. I still can't figure what it is exactly that they're training for

Maybe the USCG will sell the Eagle.
I remember the stench of green coffee beans on Hudson River piers.

[PirateGuy]

Originally Posted by Jackofall

I just want a three mast tall ship so I can sing old pirate songs and swab the decks with a close knit brother/sisterhood of a crew. Much like when I was younger and in the military. I miss that camaraderie. Cant find that anywhere in the corporate world.
I'm doing this for the lifestyle, not the rat race.

Wouldn’t buying a bottle of rum and a comfortable shower achieve a large portion of your dream? Personally, singing “15 men on a dead man’s chest” lost its appeal to me by the time I turned 12 or so.

[Jackofall]

Originally Posted by PirateGuy

Wouldn’t buying a bottle of rum and a comfortable shower achieve a large portion of your dream? Personally, singing “15 men on a dead man’s chest” lost its appeal to me by the time I turned 12 or so.

Username and reply do not check out.
Pirate songs, Irish songs, folk songs. I can chop a few chords on a guitar. Get a Zoom H6 recorder and we might go plantium At minimum its a good way to boost morale and vent out your stress through song and stomping your boots. Its how you keep your crew from yelling and stomping each other.